360. Millennial Menopause: What every woman needs to know about perimenopause, hormones, and mental health with Lauren A. Tetenbaum

Lauren (00:00):

If it’s difficult, which it surely can be, if it’s difficult to advocate for yourself with a provider and you’re getting pushback of You are too young, or I don’t know anything about that, or I don’t provide hormones, bring a friend, bring a loved one, bring a husband, write it all down and keep going. And if you need help in advocating for yourself, help is available for that too.

Dr. Sarah (00:28):

Have you been noticing brain fog, mood changes, sleep struggles, or even just a nagging sense of not quite feeling like yourself? For so many women, these experiences get brushed off as just stress or getting older, but if you’re in your thirties or forties, they may actually be signs of perimenopause, a stage of life that affects every woman differently, yet it is still so rarely talked about. Hi, I’m Dr. Sarah Bren, a clinical psychologist mom of two and host of Securely Attached, a podcast dedicated to helping parents understand the science and psychology behind parenting today. From child development to attachment science to parental mental health. Each week we dive into a wide range of topics aimed to help you find overall wellbeing and family harmony. And joining me this week is Lauren A. Tetenbaum. Lauren is a therapist and the author of the new book, Millennial Menopause: Preparing for Perimenopause, Menopause, and Life’s Next Period. In our conversation, we unpack what exactly perimenopause is, how hormonal changes can impact mood and mental health, and why normalizing this stage isn’t just a women’s issue, it’s a family and a cultural one too. So if you’ve ever wondered whether what you’re feeling could be perimenopause or you just want to get a better understanding of this phase of your life for yourself or for someone you love, this episode will give you clarity, validation, and the language to make sense of what’s happening and how to advocate for yourself.

(02:08):

Hi Lauren. I’m so happy that you’re here and welcome back.

Lauren (02:11):

Thank you.

Dr. Sarah (02:13):

I’m really happy that you were here for another episode. And this time we’re going to deep dive into a topic that’s been fairly taboo in the past, but it’s really starting to become a lot more mainstream and part of the conversation everywhere, and that’s menopause and perimenopause and all these fun life changes that women are going through. So I feel like in my work, I work a lot in helping people work through big life transitions. I know that’s something that you are super passionate about it too, and it’s taken so many forms. How did this massive life transition fall on your radar as like, okay, there is a gap here and I need to fill it.

Lauren (02:59):

It’s a great way of describing it because that is what I felt. I have always been passionate about women’s rights, women’s reproductive health. I specialize in perinatal mental health as you and I have discussed and certainly have collaborated on in general. And I was approaching my 40th birthday at the time, I was almost 39, and I realized I knew nothing about menopause and the next phase of life. And I met a woman named Anne er who co-founded Alloy, which is a telehealth platform for midlife women. And I met her and all these other women at a networking event who were older and kept saying things like, I wish I had known that menopause can last 10 years. I wish I had known that it can knock me off my feet with my mental health. I wish I had known about resources. And I truly walked out of that event thinking I have to fill this gap. I have to tell women, I have to tell my friends, my clients, and I have to learn more for myself. So I really started researching and writing.

Dr. Sarah (04:01):

That’s the best way. I think that’s why so many of women go into maternal mental health is because we transition into motherhood and we’re like, what is happening? And then now that ethos seems to be picking up speed as millennial women are entering this next phase. But I don’t know, there’s something different. I still think that there’s a need for women entering motherhood to feel more like de-stigmatization more support, less gatekeeping of information. But I also think that revolution has already, if the ball is rolling there, there’s more work to be done for sure. But why is menopause still so shrouded in secrecy and mystery, among women even?

Lauren (04:57):

A few reasons I think it unfortunately does often boil down to misogyny and ageism. I think people, especially in American culture, don’t like an older woman. They don’t view her as valuable to society. That’s been the way that our culture has been behaving for many years. And so of course, it’s internalized also not for nothing. Every woman will experience menopause differently. It’s a unique though, universal experience. But some women may have, many women do have hot flashes and some women don’t at all. And so it can be hard to make it a topic that everyone identifies with in the same way, but we don’t have to. It is universal and we just have to acknowledge it, normalize it, make it not embarrassing to talk about and work towards de-stigmatizing it.

Dr. Sarah (05:52):

Yeah. I feel like I don’t want to go too deep into this rabbit hole. We could literally spend the whole episode talking about this, but can you talk a little bit about the difference between misogyny and internalized misogyny? Because I think a lot of women are like, I’m a woman and I believe in women’s rights, so how could I be perpetuating misogyny?

Lauren (06:14):

Oh, Sarah, yes. I internalized misogyny reflects the fact that our culture is so misogynistic that we don’t even realize we’re perpetuating gendered stereotypes or cultural expectations or the way that we think about what it means to be a woman or a mother. We’re not even aware of it because it’s around us through cultural traditions, through the media, social media, pop culture, the news, the way that news covers female figures versus male figures. Just take a look and see the difference. And you can spot it immediately if you’re looking. But of course, we’re not trained to look for it. We’re trained to just consume it. And so we see the internalized misogyny all the time, even when we’re saying things like the school, oh, let me call your mom to see where you’re getting picked up from today, or Let me call your mom for a play date. Things like that though, that’s a reflection of internalized misogyny. And if you’ve ever said things like that, you’re not a bad person, you’re not a misogynist, but take a beat and really consider why are you thinking, oh, this is a job for the woman or the mother and maybe reconsider.

Dr. Sarah (07:40):

And I feel like we as adult women, I mean even I definitely have internalized misogyny. I was just thinking about this the other day. We were talking about a friend of mine, we were talking about weight loss and how it’s like, oh, there are certain ways that people consider now if you lose weight at a certain weight, you’re cheating. I’m like, cheating on what? Test. Test. Whose rules are being established? And that I think it’s so interesting, and I think there are these rules and tests that women are constantly being measured run through, and we put half the time it’s just towards our own self. It’s not even internal misogyny towards other women. It’s about the way we view what we determine internally as having value or not, or being we have a right to have struggle with this or we don’t. And it goes back even I’m thinking about just my own, where are some of the rigid rules about what it is for me, what I permit myself to do versus what I feel unentitled to goes back to being a kid.

Lauren (09:00):

Yeah, I was going to say, I wonder if your husband feels that way. And also the difference between how we raise our sons versus how we raise our daughters. And as millennials, we grew up with an awareness. I think we all kind of knew that the magazine covers critiquing women’s bodies didn’t feel quite right. We knew that that was icky, and yet we probably are a little more cognizant of our daughter’s appearances than we are our sons and maybe we shouldn’t be.

Dr. Sarah (09:34):

Yeah, because you talk about this in your book, millennial Menopause, which I have right here, and I feel like this is really important, which is like you don’t start this book at menopause. You don’t even start at perimenopause. You start it at menstruation and the beginning of this whole cycle of the female reproductive lifespan because menopause historically has been sort of fragmented out of the story, but the reality is it is a piece of a full cycle in life for a very large portion of the globe. So let’s start there. Why is there value in thinking about this as part of a whole rather than one thing?

Lauren (10:28):

Sure. For me, it’s all part of the same conversation, which is women’s healthcare and access to healthcare. And that does often start with one’s period and the way that we talk about periods and tampons and hiding a pad up your sleeve and saying things like, oh, it’s that time of the month, but you don’t want to be dubbed a crazy hormonal woman or you’re embarrassed as a teenager. That kind of attitude can continue through menopause. And as I was learning more about the menopause transition and how it can be really impactful on a woman’s life from whenever she starts symptoms through her last period and a year later, I realized so much that this is so important to destigmatize from that beginning phase, from that first period. And I certainly talk about menstruation with my children who are nine and seven. I think all kids, all men, anyone who cares about a woman needs to learn about menopause because it does affect every woman with ovaries. And it’s nothing to be ashamed of. It’s just part of your human health development.

Dr. Sarah (11:50):

I just have a total aha moment as you were saying that I have a daughter and a son, and I was like, oh yeah, I will definitely, I have so much intentionality around having this conversation with my daughter that starts with teaching her about her body, her period and will include starts with this, and then you move into this and then you move into this and it ends with your period stopping. And this is a full cycle, but it just occurred to me that I’m going to have to have this conversation with my son too. And I’ve never thought that before. It’s never even popped in my head that I would have to explain to him, my daughter six and a half, and she pulled a tampon out of my bathroom cabinet. She’s like this, can I play with this? And I was like, Hmm, no, you can’t play with that. She’s like, why? And I’m like, she thinks it was cute.

Lauren (12:39):

My kids think it looks like candy because of the wrapper’s cute.

Dr. Sarah (12:41):

Yeah. And I was like, well, because that goes into your vagina and we’ll talk about that another time. I was like, I really honestly have not even thought about the language I would use. We could talk about that a little bit maybe today. So funny, whenever I do these episodes about women’s health or adult related issues, whether it’s couples relationship stuff or whatever, I’m always, it always comes back in the episode to translating into parenting, even if I don’t intend it to. It’s like, but if, yeah, if we’re going to be talking about understanding our own transitions into menopause, our kids are going through some version of transitions too. And the whole point of this is we are struggling with this transition, or we might be struggling more with this transition probably because when we were little, nobody explains this to us.

Lauren (13:38):

It’s the fear of the unknown, and then it can really be shocking and confusing and overwhelming, and not that knowledge can alleviate the physical or mental symptoms to an extent, but knowledge really is power. And when you have an open mind and a neutral attitude, they actually do have studies that show that the symptoms are less severe. So I say, let’s learn and talk about it now. And yeah, we can totally talk about how to talk to your kids.

Dr. Sarah (14:08):

Yeah, I really didn’t realize, I was like, oh, I will definitely have to talk to my daughter about this, but this idea that you kind of inspired me in this moment, it was like if I only talk to my daughter about this, I mean I don’t need to give my son as much. Maybe details he just doesn’t need that level of, but the idea that only women talk to other women or girls about menstruation or I really do believe talking about menopause is a piece of explaining the whole cycle of fertility and body of development in women from start to finish. But why, if I don’t tell my son about that, am I also why the inherent implicit message there is, this is not for you. You don’t need to know about this because it’s our sort of secret stuff.

Lauren (15:06):

And burden to bear.

Dr. Sarah (15:08):

Right, perpetuates the shame and the stigma and the feeling like, oh, we have to hide. If I’m just matter of factly, like, oh, this is what’s happening. Just probably need to teach my daughter about stuff that happens to boys. We just can really help make it less shadowy.

Lauren (15:28):

I am so happy to hear this. I think it’s really touching, and of course you’re not alone that it didn’t occur to you to speak with your son, but I’m so glad that you now will, and your son is going to know many women who go through menopause and he will likely be living with you as you begin your journey in perimenopause. He might have a female partner one day, he will certainly have colleagues, cousins, a sister, et cetera. So you don’t need to be someone’s husband to care about these issues. And certainly a lot of the men who I spoke with about the book, and a lot of the women I interviewed too, said that the men in their life were able to support them and to sort of say, something’s going on with you. Can I help you? I want to help you through this. Let me look into providers or whatever it might be. Just showing up and saying I support you is huge.

Dr. Sarah (16:25):

Yeah. Like if your partner can help you, it’s, I think we even might’ve talked about this in the episode we did before or something around that, but I had postpartum depression with my daughter and I didn’t catch it. My husband did, and he was the one that was something doesn’t feel like it’s okay, what can I do to help you? And I think there’s also, do you find in interviewing people for this book or writing this book that women sometimes are like, I didn’t realize that’s what I was going through until someone kind of helped me put the pieces together. Because when you’re in it, you’re in it. It’s so hard to zoom out and see the whole gestalt of it all.

Lauren (17:12):

Absolutely. It’s been interesting. I keep hearing my brother helped me, and I don’t know if that’s because their partners weren’t supportive or whatever it was, but sometimes you know how it is. You never want to tell a woman to calm down. So if you’re fighting with your husband or boyfriend or whatever, and I’m using heteronormative language and the man says, well, I think you’re overreacting, that’s not going to go well. But maybe if you’re relaying an argument or whatever it was to a brother or a male, maybe they have sort of the objectivity to say, that doesn’t really sound like the way that you’re usually responding or that you want to respond. Of course a husband can do that too, but I just want to point out the power of great brother and going back to your family, that can be your son one day for his sister, whether it’s for perimenopause symptoms or getting her period you want to raise, I think we all want to raise the kind of boys and then who will go with their sisters or girlfriends to CVS and gut period products or if they bleed through, help them out with that. Or at the very least, not make fun of them for it. Just be supportive.

Dr. Sarah (18:32):

Yeah. Yeah. That’s the dream. Raising the next generation to be a little different and not because this current generation is bad. It’s the lack of knowledge that you don’t know what you don’t know. You don’t know what no one teaches you, but yeah, it is interesting. So can we talk a little bit, so what are these brothers or partners noticing that women might not be noticing themselves or not being able to put all the pieces together in a way? So in it, what are some of the signs that we’re moving into this transitional next phase?

Lauren (19:14):

Sure. So I know that Dr. Lauren Stryker, who’s a hero of mine, was on recently, and she gave a list of common menopausal symptoms. And I will zoom in on the mental health ones that obviously I’m more familiar with as a mental health professional, but also because increasingly we’re seeing that the mood shifts are among the earlier signs of the menopause transition. And so it’s really important for millennial women and anyone who cares about them to pay attention to potential signs. So those include irritability. I often see among the women, I work with a sense of reactivity that they can’t control their rage, their anger, they’re yelling, but inside they’re like, I don’t know why I’m yelling. I don’t usually yell about this, or I don’t know why this is bothering me so much.

(20:09):

Some anxiety, some depressive symptoms, but you certainly don’t have to reach the criteria of major depressive disorder to get help or to get a diagnosis of perimenopause. A lot of issues with brain fog, difficulty concentrating, difficulty remembering things. Many women say, I think I’m going through early dementia, and they panic, and it’s just not feeling like yourself. And as you mentioned, sometimes it’s easier for someone outside you to recognize that, Hey, that’s not how you usually deal with things. What’s going on?

Dr. Sarah (20:47):

It’s so funny. I literally was just the other night, I went out with one of my girlfriends and she’s super organized and I’m not, so I always am like, that’s just background. So we’re out and we get in a cab to go across town and she’s like, oh my God, I left my phone at the restaurant, which for her is really unusual. And I was like, oh, no worries. I would be the one to lose my phone. Let’s just go back. And she was really beating herself up about it, and she was like, I’m always doing this. I’m really worried that I have, I’m worried I’m forgetting a lot of things. What if I am kind of early onset? And I was like, oh, well, do you have any family history? No, no, no. I’m, I think this might actually be maybe perimenopause symptoms, not so much early onset dementia. So it was just funny. I was like, yeah, as a psychologist, my mind is usually to, we’ve been trained to be like, well, let’s look at the symptomatology first and maybe what has the most probability of being the accurate explanation. But if you don’t know about perimenopause symptoms and they’re not on your radar, it makes sense that you were saying people can go, they can get really anxious and think that they’re losing their cognitive functioning.

Lauren (22:17):

I have met with so many women who went to dozens of doctors, and these are well-resourced, well-educated women, and these doctors, these mental health professionals never mentioned, it could be perimenopause. They have been to inpatient psychiatric units. They have tried a variety of antidepressants, which absolutely are a valuable tool in our toolbox, but it wasn’t helping. And it took them years to get the diagnosis of this is related to menopause and here are some hormone therapy that is, and ultimately was helpful. And when I hear stories like that, it really lights a fire under me to provide this education, not only to the women that I know personally and professionally, but also other mental health providers because we did not get education on perimenopause. And we really need to, because we are often the ones seeing women regularly and in front of us. And I do think it’s part of our jobs to refer as needed to prescribers who can help with different medications, to provide psychoeducation around the fact that they’re not losing their minds. This is biological. And of course, that help is available. That’s really the main message. And even just providing that education, that help is available, that can go so far.

Dr. Sarah (23:40):

Yes, because I think, oh, man, feeling though you are trying to advocate for yourself in the sense that you’re saying, I don’t feel myself, something feels off. That alone is hard enough. And to do that with one provider is hard enough. But to then do that with your primary care physician, maybe your, I don’t know, endocrinologist, your mental health provider, there’s so many points where we’re probably having conversations with very capable and educated providers who are really good in their area of expertise, but if those providers aren’t being trained in, there was nothing in graduate school at all about this. And we take tons of developmental classes, like classes on lifespan development. I remember very distinctly studying for the licensing exam and having to learn about changes in thyroid hormones and how that can be overlapping with mental health symptoms and how that could be a differential diagnosis. So we were even getting some hormone crossover training. Nothing about estrogen, nothing. This is not on there.

Lauren (24:59):

No.

Dr. Sarah (25:00):

So can, yeah. Is that changing? I don’t know what’s being taught in grad programs now or medical programs now. Do you feel like there’s, on the provider level, we probably need people to be able to say like, oh, that’s a differential, that’s a rule out.

Lauren (25:17):

Yeah. Well, as you alluded to earlier about women’s health in general, there’s a lot of room for improvement on all levels. And the Menopause Society is the preeminent organization in the US for menopause providers. They recently announced an initiative for the next generation of providers to guarantee training and education in this area. We are seeing some states enact legislation around requiring certain menopause related training for doctors, nurse practitioners, et cetera. It’s an uphill battle, especially with what’s going on in terms of funding for women’s health and science in general.

(26:01):

But let’s keep fighting. And I think conversations like these, whether we have listeners who are lay women, regular people or other professionals, the more we talk about it, I think the better off we all are and we need to keep talking about it. And so as you said, if it’s difficult, which it surely can be, if it’s difficult to advocate for yourself with a provider and you’re getting pushback of You are too young, or I don’t know anything about that, or I don’t provide hormones, bring a friend, bring a loved one, bring a husband, write it all down and keep going. And if you need help in advocating for yourself, help is available for that too.

Dr. Sarah (26:41):

Yeah. What are some resources that can, if you are a lay woman and you are just like, I feel like I’m barking up a tree, that there’s nobody home, where can I go one? I mean, I think your book is a great place to go to educate yourself. Thank you. Where could people, are there resources for finding providers who are definitely versed in this?

Lauren (27:07):

Yes. So I will absolutely emphasize read my book because I do provide a ton of resources, whether they’re social media accounts that are well vetted, there are free websites and platforms, other podcasts that specialize in menopause. And the best way I think to find a provider who will meet your needs is to start the conversation with the provider that you trust. They may not be the provider who can provide full care, but at the very least they can and should be able to refer you or to collaborate with you, to learn with you. And then if you do want a menopause specialist, the Menopause Society has a list of menopause trained providers on their website, menopause.org. And this very much is a, I think, grassroots movement in terms of women educating each other. So while every woman’s experience will be different, the more you talk about it with friends and the more you hear on the ground referrals, especially if you want local referrals, I think that’s great. And if you’re open to telehealth, there are platforms like Alloy, MIDI and Electra that are lower cost or insurance covered, and they’re excellent. You would just have to go elsewhere for an in-person annual path, things like that. But they really are very well versed in this phase of life.

Dr. Sarah (28:34):

That’s great. See, the tides are changing. I feel like it’s just, well, millennial women are like, what were the kids of the baby boomers? There was so many boomers, and then we’re their kids. So we’re the second wave of this huge just generation of and mass of numbers of women. And so it’s like when we move up in the developmental timeline, we’ve been making some nice shifts. I think that when millennial women started becoming parents, all of a sudden conversations about maternal mental health became mandatory. We are not going to just be in the dark about stuff that’s not really our generation’s style, and so…

Lauren (29:21):

And we’re demanding better, yeah.

Dr. Sarah (29:24):

And it’s like this little wave as we move along the time line of our lifespan, we’re taking that energy with us. So as we hit perimenopause and menopause, where we’re at right now, I think you were born in ’85 too. I was born in ’85. There’s a lot of us.

Lauren (29:47):

There are, and we are becoming the largest demographic in the paid workforce, which of course has implications for how workplaces are treating women in menopause. We are certainly a powerful voting block, which has implications for who’s representing our interests in the government. Think about Hollywood. So I’m touching on DC, Hollywood, New York City, and the money, but certainly any woman anywhere can make a difference in this space by just talking about it, reading about it, sharing information, and demanding better and not getting dismissed.

Dr. Sarah (30:32):

As we’re talking about perimenopause and the emotional and physical changes that come with it, I want to jump in and tell you a little about the supportive resources we offer at my practice, Upshur Bren Psychology Group. This stage of life can bring a lot of unexpected shifts in your mood, your energy, your confidence, and even your sense of identity. And while these changes are a normal part of the transition, that doesn’t mean you have to navigate them on your own. Our team specializes in supporting women through life’s major transitions from postpartum and parenting to perimenopause and beyond, whether you’re noticing mood swings or brain fog, feeling disconnected from yourself, just needing space to process what’s changing therapy can help you make sense of it all and find steadier ground. So if you’re listening today and thinking, I could really use some extra support right now, we’d love to help. You can learn more or schedule a free consultation by visiting upshurbren.com, that’s U-P-S-H-U-R-B-R-E-N.com. Or just go to the episode description wherever you’re streaming this episode to get the link. Alright, let’s get back to my conversation with Lauren.

(31:39):

I like want to empower women without saying, it’s your job to fix this. It’s like, and really the task for most women isn’t really to fix anything as much as it is to, the thing that would probably have the biggest impact is to tell your story to another human being, because it’s just that one, when we talk about things without shame, it has this magical ability to desham other people’s experiences instantly.

Lauren (32:20):

Yes, it really does. And I think that’s what’s so beautiful about our jobs as mental health professionals to sit in session and hear someone’s story and validate them, and yes, provide advice and counsel, but not even, right. It’s to hear their story and to hold space for that. And I love that I was able to collect the stories of so many women for the book and then share it to a broader audience because I absolutely believe in the magic of storytelling.

Dr. Sarah (32:51):

Yeah. You don’t have to answer this, but I’ll put you on the spot. Were there anything that, in talking to women and hearing their stories that you realized, oh, I was afraid I had shame around that part of my own, that was something I didn’t realize I could say out loud.

Lauren (33:10):

That’s a good question. I don’t think so. And partly that could be because I am young, I now am 40, and I wasn’t yet in the throes of the menopause symptoms. So I think it can be difficult to advocate for something or even to talk about something when you’re really struggling with it. This wasn’t an issue that I personally was struggling with as I set out to write and talk about it. But I have always been very open about reproductive health, about sex. I give anecdotes, but they’re very true in the book of how I used to be called Condom Girl in Law School because I would hand out condoms for fundraiser. I was in the Vagina Monologues in college and was screaming vagina in the middle of campus. So I have been able to put aside any shame around sex for the greater good. And I think that is reflected as this book is a continuation. And I also think it’s a lesson of you might be far away from menopause, but you should still care about it. And in fact, it might be easier to talk about it now before you’re struggling with it. So advocate for those workplace policies, research the doctors, know yourself before you’re desperate and in the dark.

Dr. Sarah (34:35):

Right. That’s such a good point, because the reality is, and I could be wrong about this, maybe it just wasn’t something I was aware of and it was there all along, but the term perimenopause, I kind of feel like for our parents there was you menstruate, and then you have menopause. You have kids in between maybe. Yeah. But there’s this idea of like, oh, no, there’s a much, there’s more nuance to this. There’s an on-ramp. These are phased and very gradual changes that occur over a long period of time. Even that feels like a new idea because people are starting to actually be like, hi, what the hell is, can someone please tell me what I’m experiencing? And I’m not afraid to talk about the fact that I’m experiencing something confusing to me.

Lauren (35:31):

Yeah. I’m laughing because I’m thinking about the scene in Mean Girls, which by the way, referenced as the first line in my book, which is a fun pop culture filled book. But anyway, the scene in Mean Girls where they’re doing sex ed and the coach teacher says something like, you get chlamydia and then you die. And menopause education is similarly set up that way. It’s like, right, you get your period, maybe have babies, and then you are never fertile again, and then you die. And it’s like, no, no, we have whole lives in between periods and the end of periods. And we also by the way, have whole lives post menopause. But that in between phase really does deserve the recognition that it’s now only now getting. And I think that when we talk about menopause as the end of one’s period, or we say we only treat menopause at the end of your period, that’s not only inaccurate, but it’s dangerous because a lot of women, first of all, don’t even get a period whether they’ve had a hysterectomy and their uterus has been removed, they’re on an IUD, they don’t get it, whatever it might be.

(36:40):

So they can be experiencing all of these changes that are really impacting their physical health, their mental health, and they don’t have the tools to label it to get help for it. And that’s why it’s so important for providers to be open-minded. So again, if your provider is not even willing to have a conversation with you because you’re still getting a regular period, they’re wrong, and you should get a new provider and you should get support in finding that provider.

Dr. Sarah (37:09):

Yes. That’s very helpful. And also, you make a very point that I feel like needs to be underscored and circled and highlighted, which is we are talking about the end of a reproductive cycle.

(37:20):

That is it. We are not talking about the end of one’s lifespan, the end of one’s youth fullness, their ability to have meaning and purpose and energy and joy and life force and relationships. That goes all the way to the end. And I think this is that whole, going back to the beginning of our conversation about internalized misogyny is this idea that we sometimes conflate the end of a woman’s fertility and usefulness to the society at large as yes, for those of you listening, you couldn’t see Lauren’s amazing eye roll sticker tongue out face to that, which is like, yes, screw that internalized misogyny. If any of us are feeling that way, we go all the way to the end with a big bang. We do.

Lauren (38:14):

And also, there can be a lot of feelings around the change in identity, the perhaps loss of the family dynamic that you didn’t have because now you’re no longer fertile. And that’s also our job as mental health professionals to support a woman through that, because it’s layered. And if you are feeling grief over your fertility, that’s okay. It doesn’t make you a misogynist again, but let’s explore it. And certainly you deserve support for it.

Dr. Sarah (38:46):

Yeah, yeah. It’s complex. Every feeling is welcome and there are going to be a lot of feelings. And I do think this other piece is really important that it’s an end of a piece of something, but it’s not the end of everything. I feel like sometimes the conversation stops there and then yeah, women post-menopausal women feel like they’re left out of the conversation too.

Lauren (39:17):

Absolutely. But I am so grateful that I have met so many women who are older than I am throughout this journey. They have provided so much wisdom and guidance, and I will say that they all tell me you feel vivacious, you feel more confident in yourself. You are better able to set boundaries. You don’t put up with BS in the same way. And biologically, the symptoms do alleviate for the most part, once you are one year past the final menstrual period, and then a few years later, of course, there are other health risks that come along with the loss of estrogen and with aging. But that’s also why you need to really know your own body, your own health history, your own goals, and then get a provider or team of collaborative providers who will provide the best care for you.

Dr. Sarah (40:10):

That’s amazing. Well, I love talking with you. It’s always such a delight to see you. If people want to follow your work, I’ll link the episode that you were on previously because that was a really interesting conversation as well. But can you tell them where they can connect with you, where they can get your book, Millennial Menopause?

Lauren (40:31):

So my book, Millennial Menopause: Preparing for Perimenopause, Menopause, and Life’s Next Period is available wherever books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Independent bookstores. If you go to millennialmenopause.com, it will all be listed there. And you’ll also be able to go to my website, thecounselaur, which is also my Instagram handle, because I counsel women and I love a pun. So there we go.

Dr. Sarah (40:56):

I love it. Thank you. So good to see you. Congrats on this book. I’m so glad that you wrote this one.

Lauren (41:00):

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Sarah (41:07):

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