361. Q&A: What can I do if my child is reading below grade level, but is resistant to tutoring?

Dr. Sarah (00:02):

Ever wonder what psychologists moms talk about when we get together, whether we’re consulting one another about a challenging case or one of our own kids, or just leaning on each other when parenting feels hard, because trust me, even when we do this for a living, it’s still hard. Joining me each week in these special Thursday shows are two of my closest friends, both moms, both psychologists, they’re the people I call when I need a sounding board. These are our unfiltered answers to your parenting questions. We’re letting you in on the conversations the three of us usually have behind closed doors. This is Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions.

(00:41):

Hello, Dr. Emily Upshur. Welcome back to Beyond the Sessions segment of the Securely Attached podcast.

Dr. Emily (00:51):

Hey.

Dr. Sarah (00:52):

How are you?

Dr. Emily (00:53):

I’m good. I’m ready. Let’s do it.

Dr. Sarah (00:55):

You ready for a listener question?

Dr. Emily (00:57):

Let’s do it.

Dr. Sarah (00:57):

Okay. This parent writes in Hi. I have a 7-year-old who is a bit below grade level in reading. So we started having a tutor work with her two days a week. Initially, she seemed to enjoy the interactive games with the tutor, but the past few sessions she has started to complain that it’s boring. She doesn’t like that. It takes time away from playtime with her friends and she doesn’t want to have to learn outside of school. She has also been telling us she hates school since last year. We are going to try tweaking things by doing the sessions earlier so she’s not too tired or burnt out from a long day. And now we’ll also give her more time to play afterward. But I’d like to know if you have any suggestions for helping a child enjoy reading or learning in general when they find it boring or maybe too challenging. Thank you.

Dr. Emily (01:45):

I love this question, this person, because they’re already doing work to try to troubleshoot what’s happening. Why, what time of day? I love that they’re already…

Dr. Sarah (01:56):

Yeah, they’re thinking like you think, Emily.

Dr. Emily (01:59):

Yeah, they’re getting nitty gritty.

Dr. Sarah (02:02):

But they’re looking at it from multiple angles, right? They’re saying, is it time of day? They’ve done the detective work, I think, right? They’re like, is this a time of day thing? Because many variables, and we’re trying to, they’re sort of scientifically, pseudo, scientifically trying to figure out which of the variables are the things that is pushing on it. So one, is it time of day? Is it making sure that the play time is prioritized and protected? I do think because you are, so the one thing that they’re doing is they’re going to try to move the sessions earlier and preserve playtime. Okay. Because you’re going to do that. I definitely say don’t change too many things at once. You will not know which thing you’re touching that’s making the impact. So we’ll give you some more ideas, but stick with this for a few weeks before you any other tweaks to the plan, because if this works, you’ll know of likely that. And if it doesn’t work, then you can say that’s not the core problem.

Dr. Emily (03:12):

Totally.

Dr. Sarah (03:13):

Just a little research design strategy for you.

Dr. Emily (03:17):

Another thing I like about what they’re doing is it does sound like this tutor was trying to do games and make it lighter and enjoyable. So I love that that was a part of it. And I’m not sure if that ended, if there was a shift in the strategy of the tutoring that the child was responding to or not. Is this because they’re pushing reading now? I don’t know, but I think it’s a really important question because when you have a child that is showing difficulty in the subject, they’re going to resist it. It’s like, I don’t like doing planks because I’m not good at them. It’s like, I don’t want to do that and it seems really hard and I avoid it. Right?

Dr. Sarah (04:04):

And maybe the novelty of it, the first couple times that you were working out with a new trainer was like, okay, I can get past it. But now that I’m like, I’ve seen this trainer row a few too many times now the novelty’s worn off, I know you’re going to make me do a plan.

Dr. Emily (04:16):

Yes.

Dr. Sarah (04:17):

And now I don’t want to go anymore.

Dr. Emily (04:18):

Yes, it’s too long. And so I feel like this is a really important, they’re really hitting the nail on the head, which is like, this is something harder for this kid potentially. And so yes, it’s going to be harder to want to practice it, and that’s okay. And maybe my first gut instinct is to level with this kid and say, this is something that’s hard and it’s so uncomfortable to stick at doing something that’s hard and practice makes things less hard. Let’s see how, and maybe titrate how long the tutoring is, how much she can tolerate. Those are sort of my go-to first step strategies. I also have developmentally reading is very different for children, so I like to be really sensitive because the current, I don’t know where this person lives, but reading has been accelerated in terms of pushed earlier in age wise than it has historically been.

(05:21):

And it can be really, reading is really a developmental process. So there are some children that just take little longer to become confident readers or enjoy reading and moving that needle forward has made there be a little bit more pushback from kids on reading. So the other thing that I love to suggest to parents is if your 7-year-old is a little below reading their grade level in reading, but there are books they still love that are younger in age or younger in their grade level, great. Let them read those. Start with a little bit lower of a challenge so that the weight of the reading portion isn’t as laborious. And so some of that more pleasurable part of looking at pictures and making it interactive can be raised to the top a little. Those are just some thoughts.

Dr. Sarah (06:13):

Yeah, and I think specifically because a lot of little questions embedded in this question, but how do you help a child when they’re feeling like something’s boring? Because I think a lot of times kids will say something’s boring when in fact it is too hard.

Dr. Emily (06:36):

Hard.

Dr. Sarah (06:38):

Which she totally says she’s in general, how do you help a child enjoy reading or learning in general when they find it boring or maybe too challenging? So you hit the nail on the head? It’s probably the latter, but they’re probably going to say boring. So that might also be something to help them with. Not in the moment when they’re saying the complaint that, oh, this is so boring. I don’t want to go, I don’t do this. This is so boring. This is dumb. I don’t like it. That’s a moment where they’re emoting. That’s not a great time to help them perspective take. But at a different time when they might be a little bit more open, helping them understand that sometimes when we think something’s boring, actually it might be because it’s just really hard and we have to start kind of teaching kids a little bit of the nuance between build that capacity for resilience and grit when things are hard. Sometimes it just makes sense. We don’t want to do them and we’re going to do them anyway. There are some things that we still have to do and I know that you can handle that. You can really handle the feeling of not wanting to, but also just helping sort of disentangle the idea of boring versus hard.

Dr. Emily (08:03):

And also I think what you’re also getting at is a bit of raising your tolerance to hard or boring, whatever the translation is.

Dr. Sarah (08:13):

Yeah.

Dr. Emily (08:13):

Sort of a little bit of validating it, but then instilling confidence that they can handle that boring feeling.

Dr. Sarah (08:19):

Right? Yeah. I guess actually I’m having a thought, a question really, and maybe you can help me. I’ll say it out loud, work me through it. If a kid is saying, again, whether we are distinguishing boring or hard or not, but if a kid is saying something’s boring, on the one hand I want to do that supportive statement thing and kind of build their tolerance for that and be like, yeah, something if it’s boring that yeah, that’s really tough and I know you can handle doing it anyway. On the other hand, I’m like, do we collaboratively problem solve and say, well, let’s understand what makes it feel boring and see if they can put their finger on it. And maybe we can say, what would you like to do to make it less boring? What could help? What are your thoughts on that up too months?

Dr. Emily (09:08):

Do both though. Listen, I don’t think those have to be mutually exclusive. I think we can try both of those because the truth is, even coming up with a great collaboratively problem solved plan will probably in the moment feel hard. Kids are great at being like, yes, this is what’s going to help me. And sometimes it does, but in the moment it might still feel really hard when they’re like, I would like to read on my beanbag a book from last year. And you’re like, that sounds amazing. That works for me as the parent. And then tomorrow happens and they’re like, this is boring. I don’t want to do it. So I think we can do, I actually love collaborative problem solving as you know, but I think we can marry those two together.

(10:02):

My other, this is a not right now thought is if this continues to be a problem, maybe you talk to your school about if they can do a little bit of a reading assessment or see if there’s anything else going on for this child in terms of reading. Because what I don’t want to do is say, you can handle this feeling and tolerate this thing. And if they have a real reading disorder or a difficulty with reading, I’m not saying we have to jump to that at all. It is the most common phrase is I don’t like to read. It’s a very common child trope. But I do also want, I always like to plant the seed for parents of if this kid’s happening, maybe we do a little bit more looking at it from an academic perspective or talk to the school or get them involved or talk to a psychologist because we don’t want them to feel dismissed with how hard something is.

Dr. Sarah (10:53):

And I think that is a very important point that I didn’t even think about, which is I was just sort of assuming this parent, if they know their child’s reading a bit below grade level, I didn’t, in my mind I was like, that’s coming from a therapist, but it’s probably coming from a teacher.

(11:09):

So, yeah, if you are aware of your child’s grade level, their reading is below grade level because a teacher flagged it, which is usually the first time, the first way you’re going to know and you’re working. And especially then you’re so proactive, you’re getting this tutor great. And maybe now the tutor might, I mean, I’m not sure if this tutor was like Orton-Gillingham trained, maybe they’ll be able to determine if this is maybe a indication that there could be a learning disability indication. We would eventually want to rule out dyslexia or another learning disability because it could be that that’s why this is hard for that. And so that’s just something else to consider. I just don’t know why I didn’t think about that because in my mind, I was just thinking that part had already been established. But as I read the question more carefully, I realized that that probably has not yet been made. That might not have been why they started the tutoring.

Dr. Emily (12:15):

Yeah, at seven, it’s also just probably not been teased out yet just from experience. So it’s always a great idea to keep in touch with your school and your teacher, but if you have a gut instinct as a parent, this feels off. I believe parents are experts in their kids. So get a second opinion, talk to a professional, talk to your teacher. I think that can be super helpful.

Dr. Sarah (12:40):

And also early intervention is very, very, very helpful in these situations. So if someone is listening and they do want to get an eval, what could they do? There’s like two options.

Dr. Emily (12:54):

Yeah. I mean, I always say start with your school, because often they can do these internally and they can do them at low stakes and it doesn’t feel so much like a large intervention usually in their homeschool quote. And it feels like a really nice step. But you could also seek a consultation with a psychologist that has experience in neuropsychological evaluations. Don’t definitely, I’m not suggesting that that’s a necessary full evaluation, but it’s always nice to just have a conversation with somebody if you have any doubts about the academic skills or lagging skills of your kids. I know that I am a big proponent of that. And I think to your point, early intervention works great, especially if it’s the right kind. So this tutor might be amazing and they might be great, and your neighbor recommended them and they did great for their kid, but your kid might need an Orton-Gillingham, which is just, so the listeners, it’s very specific type of reading program, but it’s specifically for dyslexia. Dyslexia and nonverbal learning disorders. So I just, not saying this kid needs this, we don’t know, but it does help if you know, oh, it’s about processing speed. Oh, it’s about comprehension. Oh, it’s really a linguistic thing. So if we can double down on the right type of tutoring, that can also help accelerate the pleasure, the less hard and boring and more competency feeling.

Dr. Sarah (14:28):

Right. Because if they can get some traction and feel some ease, the whole point of the tutor is to make this easier for the kid so that they are able to just butter on the slide. They don’t have to feel the friction as much.

Dr. Emily (14:42):

And it doesn’t have to be, my oldest was always a reader, but never loved reading. And I actually sent him to a very specific type of reading program for one summer. I was like, let’s try. It totally changed his reading relationship with reading, because I think it alleviated a little bit of the difficulty somehow it made him have more competence and he’s an prolific reader now and really enjoys reading. So I think it’s just about trying to get the right fit for the right types of interventions and then getting some traction with that is always really, you’ll feel it.

Dr. Sarah (15:20):

Which is why it is very helpful if you can figure, identify what, because if you’re reading below grade level, to your point, there could be many, many different reasons why that’s happening, right? And so being able to evaluate what’s the sticking point for the kid that’s getting in the way of the reading, that can also be helpful. And specifically, I want to go back to that point about having your school do the evaluation. If you’re in public school, if you ask your school to do an evaluation, they have to, correct?

Dr. Emily (16:00):

Yes. A public school. Yes.

Dr. Sarah (16:02):

A public school. And you don’t have to pay for that.

Dr. Emily (16:05):

Correct. And once you submit a formal in writing request, they will take that and there’s a timestamp and they will execute on that. Once you sign that, you would consent to have your child evaluated. It’s really done. It’s really well done and it’s done in a timely fashion. And that can be a really nice introduction to figuring this out.

Dr. Sarah (16:28):

I just think it’s an important resource for people to be aware of because you are entitled to this because your child is entitled to an education that meets their learning needs legally. So your public school district is legally required to give that to you. So yeah, that seems like a pretty good place to start if that feels like the next step that might need to be taken.

Dr. Emily (16:53):

And I always say this for parents too, who have tutors and tutoring can be so hard to get your kid on board when you have a school-based service. They can do some of that at school, and that’s awesome for parents. So I always say it’s always great to do two-prong, do home support and school support, but if they could get a pullout at school or a push in or a little bit of extra reading attention, that’s always nice.

Dr. Sarah (17:19):

So I like the tweaks you’re doing. Make sure that you’re giving each tweak, you do enough time before you add another one in. So what’s working Also, we didn’t talk about, one other thing that I think is kind of, I know comes up a lot and there’s a lot of mixed feelings about, which is reward, reward systems, tokens, economies for incentivizing, things like reading. And I think I’m of a mixed mind.

Dr. Emily (17:50):

I believe that nobody likes to work for free. So I’m more interested in how, if it’s sustainably implemented, how as a parent that has chaos in their life, how they can create a system that’s realistic and that can be implemented in a way that might not be, it could be internally motivating for the child, but there’s different ways to do it. The reward quote doesn’t have to be sort of a monetized thing. It could be, I get to pick what’s for dinner tonight, and it’s a nice way to sort of help with those things, but I actually don’t have a problem with creating incentives. But I would first want to see what’s going on before I try to do that, I want to assess what’s going on.

Dr. Sarah (18:35):

Right, because if it’s not a motivation issue.

Dr. Emily (18:37):

Yeah, exactly. Then I don’t want to do it.

Dr. Sarah (18:39):

That’s why I think you hit it. Exactly. I have no problem doing it, creating a reward structure of some kind. But if it is in the child control. And that may not be the case. So I really want to rule that out before I start. I always say not, I’m not an anti reward charts, but I always think they should be very specific. They should be realistically time limited because the kid’s just going to lose. You have to have a realistic expectation that they’re a short half-life. They just are novel for a week or two max. And so sometimes, and it needs to be the target for which one gets a reward, needs to be within the child’s control. And so if we are fighting against a different issue here, I don’t think that we want to start with the reward system because we could just really conflate things. But if you’re like, no, no, no, we’ve ruled out all learning disabilities. This is really about trying to help our kid find some motivation to build some distress tolerance, build a little resilience and see the bigger picture here. Being able to zoom out and tolerate distress a little bit so that they can practice something that is less desirable to them in the moment.

(20:04):

Then I think a reward, helping them tie something more desirable to this behavior to practice doing the behavior could be a great strategy. So, again, that’s why everything’s a little complicated.

Dr. Emily (20:18):

We could do a whole episode on behavioral reward systems.

Dr. Sarah (20:21):

I think we probably should. Alright, well good luck to you and I think you’ve got a really strong plan.

Dr. Emily (20:33):

This mom is already on top of it.

Dr. Sarah (20:34):

You are. Yeah. So well done.

Dr. Emily (20:36):

Yeah.

Dr. Sarah (20:37):

Hope we helped.

Dr. Emily (20:37):

Bye.

Dr. Sarah (20:37):

Thank you so much for listening. As you can hear, parenting is not one size fits all. It’s nuanced and it’s complicated. So I really hope that this series where we’re answering your questions really helps you to cut through some of the noise and find out what works best for you and your unique child. If you have a burning parenting question, something you’re struggling to navigate or a topic you really want us to shed light on or share research about, we want to know, go to drsarahbren.com/question to send in anything that you want, Rebecca, Emily, and me to answer in Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions. That’s drsarahbren.com/question. And check back for a brand new securely attached next Tuesday. And until then, don’t be a stranger.