Dr. Sarah (00:02):

Ever wonder what psychologists moms talk about when we get together, whether we’re consulting one another about a challenging case or one of our own kids, or just leaning on each other when parenting feels hard, because trust me, even when we do this for a living, it’s still hard. Joining me each week in these special Thursday shows are two of my closest friends, both moms, both psychologists, they’re the people I call when I need a sounding board. These are our unfiltered answers to your parenting questions. We’re letting you in on the conversations the three of us usually have behind closed doors. This is Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions.

(00:41):

Hello, we are back with our Q&A episode on Beyond the Session segment of the Securely Attached podcast. We have Dr. Emily Upshur here. Hello. How are you?

Dr. Emily (00:54):

Good. Always good to be here.

Dr. Sarah (00:57):

All right. I have a listener question for you.

Dr. Emily (00:59):

Okay.

Dr. Sarah (01:00):

Ready?

Dr. Emily (01:00):

Yeah.

Dr. Sarah (01:01):

Okay. First of all, I just want to say how much I love the podcast. It’s been so helpful for me and my husband, so thank you. I have a question I’d love your insight on, I’m a parent of a three-year-old and I’m likely going to be having back surgery in the next couple of months. I’ve already started talking to my daughter a bit saying things like mama’s back hurts when I can’t play the way I normally would, but I’m not sure how to prepare her for the bigger changes that’ll happen during my recovery. I won’t be able to do a lot of the physical things we usually do, and I want to find a way to talk to her about that in a way that’s honest but not scary. I’d also love any tips on helping her understand that things like playing together bedtime and our routines might look a little different for a couple of months, even though the concept of months means nothing to a toddler. Any thoughts on how to approach this in a developmentally appropriate and reassuring way would be so appreciated. Thanks again for all you do.

Dr. Emily (01:56):

I’m sorry you have to have this back surgery. That’s a bummer.

Dr. Sarah (02:00):

Yeah. I hope you have an easy recovery.

Dr. Emily (02:02):

A good recovery. Yeah.

Dr. Sarah (02:04):

It’s very hard to be going through something like that when you have a three-year-old because it is such a physically arduous role to parent a three-year-old. There’s a lot of back labor.

Dr. Emily (02:17):

Demand. Yeah. I mean, I was also thinking what’s also part of the challenge is that she wants to talk to her about it in three-year-olds. It’s like cognitively a little bit of a difficult abstract concept. Right? So I think my instinct, the entire time you were reading the question was I wonder if they should just practice some of the different routines because I think a three-year-old doesn’t really get things cognitively if you explain it to them with words as well as if you act really again, act it out, play it out, try different scenarios, change the routine a little before the surgery, just to give a little bit of it, like cope ahead, exposure, actual physical learning of practice.

Dr. Sarah (03:04):

And I almost feel like to that exact same idea of how do we concretize something that is so abstract for a young child that, because it kind of makes me think. So I had a C-section when my second was born and I couldn’t do a lot of lifting, and I had to explain to my son how things were to be different, but I also had a giant belly and was like, there were so many things that were happening that were tangible for him that he didn’t really understand it, but he had understood something. I could see how much your body is changing when you are about to have a back surgery. You look the same before as you do after this isn’t this big.

(03:45):

This daughter isn’t going to be able to visually see mom’s back pain. So from that end, I’m like, how do we make that more concrete? And I was thinking too, with play, having a stuffy and a doctor kit and kind of showing your kid what the doctor’s going to do to your back via the stuffed animals back. I’m going to lay it on a table. I’m going to do some things with those tools, and then I’m going to sew it up and I’m going to give it a bandaid, and then it’s going to be ouch. It’s going to hurts a little bit. It might walk a little more slowly. This teddy bear can’t lift this stuff up, so this teddy bear is going to help and lift things for this teddy bear. What else? I dunno. Just helping making it very playful, but almost not just walking them through what’s going to be different in the child and the mother’s routine, but first and foremost, just helping the child understand why something’s changing, what happened that’s different so that when mom says, my back hurts, I can’t do this thing. The kid understands what that means.

Dr. Emily (05:01):

Yeah. I mean, I’m a big fan of analogies even for a three-year-old, so I might even optimize that booboo you got when you skinned your knee and say, we put a bandaid on for the first three days and then remember and talk through it as you go. Again, anything that helps kids ground it in their experience, a 3-year-old is extremely egocentric. It’s developmentally appropriately egocentric. And so anything that they can relate to will help ’em understand as well, even if it’s adjacent to and not the real life thing.

Dr. Sarah (05:38):

Totally. So, okay, so before the surgery, we’re going to help them understand what’s happening. We’re going to help them understand what’s going to be changing and practice that a little bit, but then they’re home. The routine is different, and obviously this child is still going to have some frustrations or confusion or have forgotten everything you’ve prepped them for in the moment when they’re in the bath and they want you to pick them up and get them out of the bath, and you say, can’t Dad’s going to come in and help with this right now even though this is our time together and they lose it.

Dr. Emily (06:19):

As you were saying that, the other piece is I just think this parent, this mom, I believe it really has to build their tolerance that this will be tough. And that’s okay too. I just feel like this will be different. Validating. Yeah. Oh, this is so hard. It’s different. Mommy can’t do that. Right. Okay. You want to sort of show them you understand their experience. That doesn’t mean that you have to change can or have to change your behavior.

Dr. Sarah (06:49):

Right. And no, that means they might be a little more irritable at times. They might not. It could be totally. It absolutely could be that this kid is like, all right, I’m adaptable. I can handle it. And they might get frustrated here or there, but no more than they would about anything else that isn’t going their way in that moment. Because they’re three. It’s also possible that this kid could be more frustrated about the things as they’re happening in the moment. You aren’t picking me up and I want upbeat now, and this is happening more, so I’m just kind of taxed more and I’m more irritable. It could also look like other things regress, right? Things that don’t feel like they’re connected. If I want uppi from you and you keep saying Your back hurts and you can’t give me uppi, and I’m mad that’s directly related. But if I’m all of a sudden not eating as much or getting more picky with foods or just more difficult and fussy at meal times, or I’m having more sleep regression stuff, or…

Dr. Emily (07:51):

More potty accidents.

Dr. Sarah (07:52):

More accidents or whatever, these indirect things because the system is stressed and when the system gets stressed, other stuff starts to kind of go backwards a little bit. That’s super normal and not worth freaking out about. And especially because, I mean, hopefully this is temporary, right? This mom is hopefully going to have a successful surgery and a good recovery, and eventually this isn’t going to be an issue anymore that the things that might be kind of shaken up during this weird moment in time. Eventually we’ll settle back down and get back on track when things stabilize. So I wouldn’t worry about that. Obviously, if you’re having a lot of sleep regressions, everyone might be a little more tired and more cranky, but for the most part, I don’t think you have to solve any of these things. Solve themselves as you guys go back to your normal rhythm over time.

Dr. Emily (08:51):

And I think the other thing worth saying is we’re talking a lot about, and this mom is probably worrying and thinking a lot about the things they can’t do, and I think it’s worth flipping that over and presenting to your child, but here’s all the things we still can do. And giving those options in that menu and just reminding yourself and your toddler, your three-year-old of all the things you still can do together, and maybe that’s new fun things that you didn’t do as much when you had more mobility. So I think that that’s also a really important cognitive shift is, well, there are things we can do. I don’t want to just give you, I don’t want to be the no person. I can’t do that. No, I can’t do that. No, I can’t do that.

Dr. Sarah (09:33):

Yeah, no, even adding in things, I imagine if you are recovering from back surgery, you’re going to be laying in your bed or on the couch a lot more often than maybe before that surgery and maybe allowing for some special snuggle times that don’t normally have space for in our day. Maybe we have a special stack of books that are just for snuggle time when mommy needs to lay down for a while. I know that sometimes mommy needs to lay down alone for a while too. Now you don’t get permanent access to snuggle time with mommy. But I think there’s something you’re saying we get not just some things will stay the same, but some things can be new that are special because we’re going through this thing.

Dr. Emily (10:18):

I mean, my kids were slightly older, but I had complete knee reconstruction, and I remember towing the line of giving some mastery though giving some independence and some pride. And I said, you can do this now alone. I can sit here and I can watch you. I can’t pick you up out of the bathtub. I can’t sort of walk over there, but I know you can do it. So you can reframe it as an opportunity of growth too.

Dr. Sarah (10:45):

And celebrating that.

Dr. Emily (10:46):

Yeah, look, you can do these things and you can help your sister. Or there’s these ways that there can be things that can give mastery and confidence. And sometimes because we over accommodate, right? So it’s nice to push that sort of envelope of independence as well.

Dr. Sarah (11:03):

And the only other thing I would say that’s worth mentioning I think, is we’re talking a lot about how to support the child in managing these transitions and frustrations and preparing them. But I also think more important actually than any of that is making sure you are taking care of your own bandwidth, energetic resources. You are pulling in your supporters, you are pulling in your favors. You are going to get the, I don’t know, my synagogue has a freezer full of freezer meals that anyone can just go in and take when they need it. And I’ve never done it, but if I had back surgery, I’d be picking up those meals. And that’s like, go find those things, get a mother’s helper to come in for a couple hours a day, do things to take the load off of you. Because actually what’s probably going to be the most important thing for your child is that you take care of yourself.

(12:07):

You get rest, you heal, you fill your needs, and you fill your cup because this is going to be a blip on their radar in the long run, as long as it is a true blip on the radar, but it won’t be if you don’t take care of yourself and your healing is going to be your biggest priority and taking care of yourself. And I think that’s a hard thing for parents, especially mothers to give themselves permission to do. They think I’ve got to kind of power through this and just keep my priority as being a plus mom regardless of what my body is needing. And I think that that’s a dangerous slippery slope. And I think it’s much, much, much healthier for the entire family system of which your child is very much a part of and benefits from for you to be prioritizing what you need.

Dr. Emily (13:07):

Yeah. No, and I also think in the effort of reducing your demand, you show up more emotionally regulated. So it’ll be frustrating for you too that you can’t do all of these things. And so I think it’s super important that you lower the demand so that you can have more radical acceptance, tolerate your toddlers tantrums more, be the container that you need to be for these emotions. And with less demand. If you’re not running around making dinner or trying to do all these other things, you’re going to have a little bit more patience, a little bit more tolerance, acceptance, and be able to show up in a better, more regulated way.

Dr. Sarah (13:51):

And obviously this mom is putting so much thought and care into just this question. So I’m assuming she’s putting a tremendous amount of thought and care into her mothering. And I know that when we are in that camp, we can tend to put a lot of self-worth and value in our ability to be that rockstar mom. So then when you have something that happens to you where you have to actually be a rockstar, take care of yourselfer, that’s a different set of skills. It’s a different role. We don’t always have as much competence and mastery in that. And so letting go of the part of our life, that role that we feel more comfortable and competent and rockstar in to not have access to that all the time can actually take a toll on our self-esteem. And I think that’s also worth kind of remembering and reminding ourself. I can take pride in the fact that I am a good mom, but I’m so much more than that. And when I can’t do all the things that I associate with being a good mom, one, that doesn’t mean I’m not a good mom, but also it doesn’t change my sense of self-worth either when I put, you know what I’m saying, Emily.

(15:07):

This is a deeper issue and I’ve no idea if this mom is going to contend with this or not, but I know a lot of moms do. When we lose access to the thing that makes us feel really good about ourselves, we can feel depressed or we could feel bad about ourselves and lose that. And it’s like, oh, wait, what else? What other role in our life, our relationship with ourself or whatever has atrophied if when we can’t mother the way we like to mother, we don’t feel like we’re able to be our whole self. And that’s an issue.

Dr. Emily (15:43):

Yeah. I mean, listen, I think you’re talking about a role. This might be a blippy role transition, but it also might speak to just role transition where it’s hard to give up a little bit of the thing that makes you feel competent and good. And I think that is a really important thing to be mindful of, and also accepting help, which isn’t the easiest thing for a lot of people and a lot of moms. So I think that’s the other piece is letting other people do stuff can also be a little tricky for some moms. So I think thinking ahead about that, even if it’s not how you want everything to be for a long time, radically accept this as a temporary period of time and really be mindful of the changes you’ll have to do, even if they’re temporary to sort of smooth that transition, that real shift.

Dr. Sarah (16:36):

Well, we wish you a very speedy recovery and a good successful surgery.

Dr. Emily (16:42):

Yeah.

Dr. Sarah (16:43):

I hope this helpful. Thank you.

Dr. Emily (16:46):

Bye.

Dr. Sarah (16:49):

Thank you so much for listening. As you can hear, parenting is not one size fits all. It’s nuanced and it’s complicated. So I really hope that this series where we’re answering your questions really helps you to cut through some of the noise and find out what works best for you and your unique child. If you have a burning parenting question, something you’re struggling to navigate or a topic you really want us to shed light on or share research about, we want to know, go to drsarahbren.com/question to send in anything that you want, Rebecca, Emily, and me to answer in Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions. That’s drsarahbren.com/question. And check back for a brand new securely attached next Tuesday. And until then, don’t be a stranger.