341. Q&A: Dating in parenthood: What’s the best way to approach meeting my new girlfriend’s kids?

Dr. Sarah (00:02):

Ever wonder what psychologists moms talk about when we get together, whether we’re consulting one another about a challenging case or one of our own kids, or just leaning on each other when parenting feels hard, because trust me, even when we do this for a living, it’s still hard. Joining me each week in these special Thursday shows are two of my closest friends, both moms, both psychologists, they’re the people I call when I need a sounding board. These are our unfiltered answers to your parenting questions. We’re letting you in on the conversations the three of us usually have behind closed doors. This is Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions..

(00:41):

Welcome back. I’ve got Dr. Rebecca Hershberg and Dr. Emily Upshur here, and we are going to answer a listener question. Hi.

Dr. Rebecca (00:51):

Hi.

Dr. Sarah (00:53):

So this one I’m very excited about because you know how we usually get questions from moms this time we got a question, not even from a dad, but from a guy who is going to begin a sort of pseudo parental relationship and he put in a question. So I’m like, yes, the podcast is reaching a diverse audience and I’m happy about that. So are you ready for this question?

Dr. Emily (01:18):

Let’s do it.

Dr. Sarah (01:19):

Okay. Hi, Dr. Bren. My girlfriend is a big fan of your podcast and I just started listening and I’m already finding it really helpful, especially as someone without much experience with kids. I was searching for an episode about meeting your partner’s kids for the first time and I didn’t find anything about that on here. For a little context, I’m in a serious relationship with a woman who has three kids, ages five, nine, and 12. I’m about to meet them for the first time and I want to make sure it goes as smoothly as possible. Their dad is still very involved in their lives and I want to be respectful of that. I’m not trying to replace him, but I also want to start building a good relationship with the kids. Do you have any advice on how to approach that first meeting? How much do you love this person? So thoughtful.

Dr. Emily (02:03):

Very thoughtful.

Dr. Sarah (02:05):

I know you just get tangle gold stars. I just really am excited that you care enough to be thinking about this so intently, let alone seeking out our response. I feel so flattered.

Dr. Rebecca (02:21):

Well, I think that speaks to the first point I would make, which is just the intentionality is so important. Just the awareness, the self-awareness of the role, both what it is and what it’s not, I think is really key. And balancing that with, in some ways it’ll sound like the opposite, but I don’t mean it that way, but sort of not overthinking it, just being you are not stepping in as a parental figure. He’s about to meet the kids for the first time. That’s not a parental. You want to be a nice guy.

Dr. Sarah (03:02):

You’re just building a relationship.

Dr. Rebecca (03:04):

Right? You are ideally smiling, letting your girlfriend take the lead. If your girlfriend can kind of tell you in advance what each one of them is into. And so maybe you have a little bit of that in your back pocket. Maybe again with her and only with her permission you bring cupcakes. I don’t know. But your goal is just for them to like you and maybe want to see you again. That’s it.

Dr. Sarah (03:31):

It’s funny when you said that it made me think of this sort of rule when I used to work with a lot more non-parents in my practice and I’ve worked with a lot of people dating and I always people who would really overthink dating and get really stressed out about it and one of the things or just really burnt out by it. And one of the things I would always say is, the only goal of a date is to decide if you want to have another date. That is it. It is not. Is this person going to be my forever person? Is this person a good person? It’s not for answering these massive questions, it’s just, do I want to do this again with you? And so that made me think of that Rebecca, because it’s like, yeah, you’re not dating these kids, but you are having this sort of first touchpoint of a relationship and really your goal is just to have them make that decision. Yeah, I’d like to see this person again, not in a, but don’t be in a false way trying to earn that. Just be authentic and in that authenticity, I mean kids thrive on authenticity. They do not. Kids are the best BS radars in the entire world. They can sniff out inauthenticity pretty quick. So don’t be saccharine or overly fawning or sweet or cool. Don’t try too hard. Just be interested in them, genuinely curious, open and interested in them and have a really calm and relaxed demeanor. I also think…

Dr. Emily (05:07):

I was going to say that too.

Dr. Sarah (05:08):

They’re nervous systems.

Dr. Emily (05:10):

You’re going to be more nervous than they are probably. And so I think it’s like self-regulate. How can you ground yourself so that you can show up authentically? And I would say if I were to give one tip, it would be follow their lead, right? Follow lead your thing, but follow their lead. And that’s sort of what we talk a lot about with child directed play and it sort of just gives a little bit a goal and a boundary to sort of keep yourself grounded in. But I also think be prepared for it to be a little chaotic. These are three kids, they’re young, they could get really excited, they could get dysregulated. So I guess it goes back to that whole thing that we talk about from a parenting side, which is how can you stay in your zone of regulation so that you can do the best showing up you can.

Dr. Sarah (06:00):

Yeah, I think that’s a really good advice. I think that also makes me think of obviously a different context, but similar idea of meeting a kid for the first time and wanting them to want to see me again. When I start therapy with a family or with a kid, I am like, what do I do to have that first intro feel like they left that interaction being like, okay, I’d go back fine. I’m not asking for them to be like, yes, therapy. I can’t wait till the next session. I just want them to be like, yeah, okay, I’d see that lady again. Sure. So my stakes for myself are low. I’m setting myself up for success by saying I just need to have them be open to the idea of a second session. I have to get them to love me, but I follow their lead. I kind of really practice attunement. If I ask about this and they don’t seem to want to go there, I say, cool, pivot. We try something else. Be willing to try different points of entry and especially this is tricky. You’ve got a five and nine and a 12-year-old. They’re all going to bring their own pace and needs and interests and attention span and energy levels to this interaction. I don’t know what you’re doing. Another thing is maybe we could talk about structure of this interaction.

Dr. Rebecca (07:22):

And is it clear that he is meeting them all at the same time? That was my other question.

Dr. Sarah (07:25):

It says that he’s about to meet them for the first time and it doesn’t say anything else. So it could be that he is meeting them separately. I don’t know. Would you recommend that? I’m sure that maybe if we can get ahead of this.

Dr. Rebecca (07:38):

Not necessarily. Honestly, it depends on the kids and their personalities and their schedules and their, I think the following the lead is important. I can picture her. This person is clearly so eager in such a wonderful way to make a good impression. And so the biggest risk I think is obviously I’m being totally speculative, but being the camp counselor and the kids don’t really want the camp counselor personality.

Dr. Sarah (08:06):

Or the 5-year-old does, but the 12 year old’s like uh-huh.

Dr. Rebecca (08:08):

Right, so just following the lead. So I mean, Emily said it and just following their lead. And also you don’t have to show all your cards back to that dating idea. You want them to want to see you again, but also maybe they just want to see you again. They don’t not want to see you again. You don’t have to make the best impression ever.

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Dr. Emily (10:01):

I also think this is conversations reminding me of how I talk about play dates. It’s like it’s really good for it to have a time limit. It’s really good for beginning when you’re first starting to do play dates for them to be short and sweet.

Dr. Sarah (10:16):

The four hours or the four S’s, we talked about this before, short, sweet, semi-structured and supervised.

Dr. Emily (10:22):

Exactly.

Dr. Sarah (10:23):

That feels like it would apply to this too.

Dr. Emily (10:25):

Yeah, my how can you have the best optimization for success of these things? We don’t want it to have time to spoil, right? We’re going to get in. You’re going to have a positive experience. We’re going to get out, it’s going to be positive and that’s a great, and then a high note and if it’s going, well still end it I think.

Dr. Rebecca (10:46):

And I would say definitely have it be quick. I guess I thought maybe it would’ve been blood, but not, I wouldn’t have it be lunch or dinner or there’s time for that. It could be just like a 10 minute you’re going to meet her at her house…

Dr. Sarah (11:01):

Ice cream, go get ice cream and be done or go. It’s hard with an activity that’s going to hit all three ages. So I would say ice cream’s a pretty safe bet.

Dr. Rebecca (11:12):

Or if there’s a babysitter coming, if you’re going out for dinner with your girlfriend, pick her up at home, pop in, say a quick hello. Because then you get, it’s almost like then they have a visual of you.

Dr. Sarah (11:24):

But to me you see that one. I would challenge that one because then again, remember if there’s any feelings these kids have about the divorce and then they see this person coming and taking their mom away from them and leaving them with a babysitter, I just think I could activate some attachment stuff. I almost feel like having, it’s like you come into their territory rather than you come in and take away something. Maybe I’m overthinking it, but I genuinely think, I think it’s a short and sweet joining.

Dr. Emily (11:54):

But I think there’s authenticity to that. They know, I mean, put it this way, maybe we should back up a few steps. They know about you, right? This isn’t some bandit in the night coming, hopefully.

Dr. Sarah (12:06):

Which should be prerequisite. So if they don’t, do that first.

Dr. Emily (12:09):

Let’s back up a few steps.

Dr. Rebecca (12:10):

And also Sarah, I feel like we’re always trying to be clear, and I don’t think this is what you meant, but I want to just super highlight that it’s not what you meant. I think we’re always trying to be clear about the fact that attachment is not as fragile as we think it is. There was something about the way you framed that the dad, the boyfriend coming in and taking the kids away is going to activate attachment stuff. I know what you mean.

Dr. Sarah (12:36):

No, it’ll not damage an attachment system, but it can activate an attachment system. And if we think about an attachment system as really just a threat response. Now I’m not talking about attachment style or an attachment relationship, like the security of that relationship. That’s the difference. So we create an attachment relationship and the style or quality of that relationship that’s from millions of interactions over time. This one thing will not make or break that, but our attachment system is actually a threat response and we don’t really need to be, if we could avoid doing something that might activate the attachment system, AKA activate some unconscious threat response, better not to do that would be my only point. So that’s an important distinction. I’m glad you flagged that.

Dr. Rebecca (13:28):

And maybe I would just say to that the girlfriend and the boyfriend, a couple can talk about that. Again, I think there’s so much dependent, depends on how long ago the family got divorced, how contentious it is, how long this boyfriend has been on the scene. There’s just so many things. I could see what my suggestion before not being a good idea based on what you’re saying, and I could see it being a great idea based on what I was. I just think there is a way in which some cases is a little separate.

Dr. Sarah (13:56):

Definitely. And also these kids could be not care at all and it could very much not activate their attachment system or an attachment response, but it could, which is why if you think it might better not to, but I guess maybe it doesn’t.

Dr. Emily (14:13):

And my point would be Sarah, that I think we should back up a few steps and say to this boyfriend part of the couple that talking to your girlfriend about how she’s talked to the kids about you really having some grounding. I think you’d pick up on some spidey senses of that too. If the kids are like, I don’t want to hear anything about this, then maybe we don’t do come in and sweep my way. But if they’re like, yeah, yeah, you go out, you disappear all the time with somebody, I can’t. We’ve been, yeah. So I think it’s important to maybe before meeting, just back up a few steps and say, how is your partner talking to the kids about you? Just getting a sense of the landscape around that, what have been their responses, and then we can sort of tailor that introduction to sort of a little bit more data points in terms of the landscape of what your children’s feelings are and different feelings based on different kids.

Dr. Sarah (15:21):

That also makes me wonder too, because seen this come up and again, the answer is probably going to be, it depends, but at the same time as a general thinking about it, what are your thoughts on if this person is in a very serious relationship with this woman, this couple has done work together on deciding how and when is the right time to introduce him to the kids. And they’ve decided we’ve checked all those boxes and the kids are ready and we are ready. This dad, their biological dad is still very involved in their lives and this person wants to be respectful of that and not try to create any kind of weirdness in that relationship. What are your thoughts on meeting him before you meet his kids or again, totally. It depends on the way this family has structured co-parenting and custody and how much co-decision making they make. But I’ve seen this play out in a couple relationships that I’ve worked with through divorces where I’m seeing the dad and the dad felt kind of like an opportunity to build a relationship with his ex-wife’s significant other and had some, so I’ve seen it in different ways. I’m curious what you guys think about should this person consider having a conversation with the children’s dad. Could you see that being useful?

Dr. Emily (16:49):

I mean, I would jump in to say I think that’s probably less on, unfortunately, I think that’s less on him and more on his partner, right? A common, if it’s not part of your parenting agreement, it probably should be like how you talk about these things, how you talk about changes. And we could back up and help them as a couple. The boyfriend and the mom of 3.

Dr. Sarah (17:10):

Yeah, basically. I really think since I think they’re both listening right now to this, I don’t think it’s just him.

Dr. Emily (17:16):

This just getting linguistically hard for me, but I guess what I’m saying is I think we could talk to them about best practices for positive relationships and also get a little bit more informed about their divorce and the agreements that they’ve come to on that. And maybe that’s a question he could ask, is there anything stipulating, because that’s written in parenting agreements, is there anything stipulating meeting of partners? How do you feel about this? That’s also a really good point because I think that’s really respectful of that. You’re still a family with your biological parent and how do you, and obviously depending on how contentious or not contentious or the types of ways that you’re trying to navigate that, but I think that that’s also a consideration. You could meet with somebody and discuss that and figure that out together.

Dr. Sarah (18:09):

Just something to consider as a pre-step and how you want to navigate that.

Dr. Emily (18:14):

Yep.

Dr. Sarah (18:15):

Well, I hope this answers your question and I hope that this is helpful and good luck. Keep on listening. So exciting.

Dr. Rebecca (18:22):

Yes, absolutely. Keep listening. Tell all your friends, all your dad non-married friends.

Dr. Sarah (18:29):

Yes. Let’s balance out our listenership a little bit. We’re like 93% moms. Hi dads. We love you.

Dr. Rebecca (18:36):

We love you. Alright, bye everyone.

Dr. Sarah (18:39):

Bye

Dr. Emily (18:41):

Bye.

Dr. Sarah (18:42):

Thank you so much for listening. As you can hear, parenting is not one size fits all. It’s nuanced and it’s complicated. So I really hope that this series where we’re answering your questions really helps you to cut through some of the noise and find out what works best for you and your unique child. If you have a burning parenting question, something you’re struggling to navigate or a topic you really want us to shed light on or share research about, we want to know, go to drsarahbren.com/question to send in anything that you want, Rebecca, Emily, and me to answer in Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions. That’s drsarahbren.com/question. And check back for a brand new securely attached next Tuesday. And until then, don’t be a stranger.