345. Q&A: Is it okay to discipline someone else’s child during a playdate?

Dr. Sarah (00:00):

Back to school and sports season is here, and that’s why Name Bubbles, a mom founded brand is going to be a game changer for busy parents. They’re durable, waterproof name labels for kids’ stuff, lunchboxes, water bottles, backpacks, clothing, more, are all dishwasher and laundry safe, which means once you stick them on, they stay put. They’re perfect for daycare, schools, sports, and camp. Keeping your kids’ belongings from going missing or ending up in the lost and found Name Bubbles are award-winning and trusted by parents nationwide. To check them out for yourself, visit namebubbles.com and use code NB15 for 15% off your first order.

(00:44):

Ever wonder what psychologists moms talk about when we get together, whether we’re consulting one another about a challenging case or one of our own kids, or just leaning on each other when parenting feels hard, because trust me, even when we do this for a living, it’s still hard. Joining me each week in these special Thursday shows are two of my closest friends, both moms, both psychologists, they’re the people I call when I need a sounding board. These are our unfiltered answers to your parenting questions. We’re letting you in on the conversations the three of us usually have behind closed doors. This is Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions.

(01:26):

Hello. Welcome back to Beyond the Sessions segment of the Securely Attached podcast where we answer your listener questions. I have Dr. Rebecca Hershberg. I have Dr. Emily Upshur. Welcome.

Dr. Rebecca (01:37):

Thank you.

Dr. Emily (01:40):

Hi.

Dr. Sarah (01:41):

Hi. I have a question and this listener wrote in and she says, hi, Dr. Bren. Am I allowed to say stop to my friend’s autistic son who hit my son during a hangout? It felt like the right thing to do because my protective instinct kicked in just feeling unsure how to handle this type of situation because I noticed my friend nor her husband steps in to correct their son’s bad behavior. Her autistic son seems to get a free pass on hitting his younger siblings as well. I feel like this is a question that a lot of parents have, and I am really glad this person put it in words because it is a legit tricky situation. I want to acknowledge that it’s understandable that there’s ambivalence or uncertainty on what the quote rules are around this.

Dr. Rebecca (02:33):

And I think it’s also important, but perhaps worth highlighting both scenarios she’s mentioning, I’m assuming it’s a mom, perhaps wrongly, but she’s mentioning the diagnosis of the other kid, but it comes up a lot even in the absence of that and to the extent that it’s unclear, you can tell I think perhaps wrongly, but this parent is including that as part of the equation, and I think that’s accurate that people feel extra and self-conscious or hesitant or whatever to parent another person’s child when they know the other person’s child perhaps has some challenges or diagnostic issues.

Dr. Emily (03:11):

That was my thought exactly as well.

Dr. Sarah (03:14):

But I think it’s fair to say, and I’m curious what you guys do, but I still think it’s, I mean, it’s obviously context dependent, situation dependent, but typically I’m of, I kind of align with this mom’s protective instinct kicking in and saying, I felt like there was a boundary to set and saying, stop to a child who’s in a moment of dysregulation or actually, frankly, helping them stop and be safe. I think that can be done in a way that is containing respectful, appropriate, and useful and not necessarily stepping on other parenting toes.

Dr. Rebecca (04:08):

Yeah, no, I agree wholeheartedly, and I think what you said at the end is valuable, which is how to say it, because I think it’s not, I would say the unequivocal answer in my opinion, to the question of am I allowed, which I think is how the question started. The answer is absolutely, you’re protecting your kid and also you’re protecting the whole hangout or whatever terms you use, play date. It’s like the whole thing is going to go south if someone’s hitting, and so absolutely. I think any grownup present, the idea is they’re there to keep the kids safe and healthy, and that means setting boundaries or helping them play kind of more proactively or whatever it is. And then the question becomes how do you do it now saying, stop, don’t hit my kid is probably not the most effective way either to get the child to stop hitting or to engender favor with the other parent, but walking over and saying, Hey, hey, hey, looks like things are getting a little rough over here. How about we take a moment and Oh, look at this shiny fun toy. Maybe we should or let’s go outside, whatever. We can talk about ways you might redirect, but I think the idea that you can get involved is, to me, that’s a 100% yes. And in fact I would encourage it.

Dr. Emily (05:31):

Yeah, I agree. And I also think this person also wrote in that maybe the parents of this child have a different set of strategies, and I think on a play date you have to meld strategies. You don’t have to defer to the other families what their typical approach would be. I think it’s really important to sort of do a lot of modeling, and again, as you say it I think is really important. I’m going to help you guys think of a different thing to play with, or I’m going to, let’s see if we can do something different. I like Rebecca’s shiny object over here. Can we redirect? Can we change the set? Can we get some movement? And also, I think the other important thing to note when you have, if this is a pattern because some insinuation in this question that this is a thing that happens sometimes. Then I also think really strategically thinking about your play date type is important and setting it up for success. So if you are always throwing the kids down in the basement and the parents are upstairs and the kid’s running upstairs, they’re hitting me. Let’s not repeat that again. Let’s try something different. I liked Rebecca’s suggestion of maybe you do something more movement oriented with this kid. Maybe you try more time, limited play date. There’s lots of ways we can troubleshoot that.

Dr. Sarah (06:55):

Yeah, we talk a lot on the podcast about the four S’s of a successful therapeutically minded play date, which is short, sweet, structured and supervised or semi-structured and supervised.

Dr. Rebecca (07:09):

Yeah, and I think also, Emily, what you said about if it’s a pattern, I think then it can potentially open the door for a conversation with a parent if it’s a one-off play date or if you’re just in the park and some kid is hitting your kid, that’s one thing. But if this is a family that you really like spending time with, I mean, I think some of those conversations are really helpful of like, Hey, I noticed when our kids get together, it tends to get aggressive. I know that you’re dealing with a lot with your child. Are there things that would be helpful for me to know that I can prep my kid for that we can do together? Again, depending on your relationship with the family, I’ve had families have that conversation with me and it’s always welcome. It’s always like, I’m so glad you asked. Yeah, we’ve found that for example, just like we just said, redirection is the way to go. So yeah, if my kid is the one, because again, there might be the other family listening to this podcast, you’re the one with the kid who’s aggressive and you could even say, Hey, my child has this diagnosis or doesn’t have this diagnosis, has a tendency to hit or is in a hitting phase or whatever it is.

Dr. Sarah (08:20):

Or is it hard for him to, he gets frustrated by this thing or like…

Dr. Rebecca (08:24):

Right, exactly.

Dr. Sarah (08:25):

He has a hard time with territory.

Dr. Rebecca (08:27):

And just to say, right, so we’re working on it and obviously I really want our kids to have a good time together and be safe. I’m going to do my best to jump in, but if you jump in, feel free to jump in and would this way is going to be the most helpful for my particular kid at this time.

Dr. Sarah (08:44):

Mhmm.

Dr. Rebecca (08:44):

The same way you might tell a teacher Here’s what to know about my kid and frustration tolerance or something.

Dr. Sarah (08:51):

Yeah, I think that’s really important. I do think there are the situations on the playground where it’s like, I don’t know this kid. I don’t know their parents. I don’t know how they’re going to react. And I still think there’s a way to, I think when you come at a conflict with kids that needs some containment from a place of I’m entering into this dynamic with an energy of I’m here to keep things safe. I’m here to help you guys, not a victim villain kind of victim aggressor mentality. I have to protect my child from this aggressive child, but ooh, you’re both having a really hard time staying safe or this is getting too overwhelming. I need to help you. And when we come in with that energy of compassion and containment, and I’m here to help two small beings who are having a trouble figuring this out in this moment, I think that can be felt by other parents.

(09:54):

Now, not all parents, and obviously if you know the family and you’ve got a pretty good relationship, chances are high that you are going to see one another’s best intentions in these attempts to set boundaries with the kids, or perhaps not, but obviously at a playground and you don’t know the family. It’s totally possible that a parent might be not cool with the way you handled it. And I think there’s also that bit of our own distress tolerance of saying, I have to kind of parent in alignment with what I feel is my values and my understanding of my role as the grownup in this space. Even if that pisses off a parent, again, I would never yell at another person’s child. I would never actively put my hands on another person’s child unless I was truly creating space between the two of them and it was like a safety issue. But to speak to a child and communicate boundaries and to insert my physical presence to help enforce that boundary, I don’t know. I think that’s an alignment with the way I would choose to show up and it could piss off a parent who has a different set of values and I have to kind of make a decision, like a game time decision and say, I’m okay with that and I’m going to do what feels okay to me and understand and tolerate if it prickles somebody else.

Dr. Rebecca (11:22):

And I also want to make space for the idea that it may not be a values thing, it may be a threshold thing. Parents have such different, I’m thinking if you’ve got four older kids and everybody’s always physical with each other, and so some little scuffle on the playground isn’t necessarily going to bother you, and then you’ve got somebody else with their first kid and perhaps just has a lower threshold for physical play. And so again, it may not be about values. Everybody wants to keep their kids safe and what that looks like looks different for different parents. And so again, to recognize, as you said, Sarah, there might be some prickliness, there might be a misunderstanding, there might be an uncomfortable moment, and that’s okay. Right? I’ve been on that end of it too where some parent is giving me a really dirty look because I’m not intervening and then having to say, I’m sorry, I feel like you’re, do you want, you know what I mean? It’s awkward and it’s okay to have those conversations because we all have different kids and different thresholds and different, but I think what you said that I would stand by is can you go into every interaction like that? Excuse me, with attributing the benefit of the doubt. This mom is giving me a dirty look because this mom really wants the best for her kid.

(12:44):

So instead of my saying, why are you looking at me like that instead, it’s sort of like, what’s going on? You’re giving me a look. Is something going on? Whatever the words might be in the situation, but just this idea that we’re all there in the playground to ideally have our kids have a fun and safe time. And so what’s getting in the way of that? Because it’s going to be different for different parents. I’ve certainly been on both ends of that. I’ve been the parent that some other parent is looking at. I’m allowing some wild bruhaha to occur, which just doesn’t feel like a wild bruhaha to me. And I’ve been the parent looking at the other parent, really, you’re letting this fly. I’m going to go get involved because my kid’s clearly not safe. So you have to learn to navigate that as a parent.

Dr. Emily (13:33):

I love the idea of threshold, Rebecca. That’s a really nice way to put it. And I guess I’ll introduce a little bit of another angle, which is, I think the other thing, and I might get some slack for this, but you guys tell me, is that again, if it’s as a family you play with, you’re familiar with them, this is some patterns. I actually think depending on the developmental age and stage of the child, putting some onus on your child of like, well, you can be attuned to this situation and when you take the ball from so-and-so, or when you win at a game, or it might be a little hard for them to understand. And I think we can help our own children, like this listener’s child, be a little bit more attuned and understand how to navigate different relationships as well. And I think that’s a really valuable skill for our children. I’m not saying take abuse or anything along those lines, but I do think being able to navigate and understand and be attuned to different social interactions and different relationships is also really important and a skill for your own children as well.

Dr. Sarah (14:39):

Yeah.

Dr. Rebecca (14:40):

I think that’s a really good point. I agree.

Dr. Sarah (14:42):

Really good point. I think also I was reading through the question again. I was like, oh wait, how old is this kid? And it doesn’t say, it doesn’t say, it’s interesting because what you were saying, Emily makes me think too about what you said, we have to think about the developmental zone the kids are in, but I do think even really young kids can a lot of times on play dates with a friend of mine and our kids are getting into it. I would say when my kids were very little, do we want to let them try to figure this out or do we want to step in? That’s another thing is you could have a game time conversation with the other parent in the moment. If they’re not acting and you want to act. I think it’s sometimes appropriate to say, okay, something’s brewing.

(15:32):

What do you think to bring them in? I think we don’t want to always assume that the other person isn’t acting because they are okay with it. They also might not know, okay, I’m not really sure what the rules are here between it. What are our personal mom play date rules of engagement? So I think it’s also okay to just say to the other mom or the other parent, the other adult in the room being like, okay, what are you thinking about this? Should we let them figure this out? Should we step in? Because it also, it wakes up the need to have an intentionality, but maybe the intervention could be different than the one your instincts tell you to do. And talking it through wakes up both of your thinking brains and helps you sort of be bringing in what you know about both of your children and try to problem solve collaboratively as the adults in the room.

Dr. Rebecca (16:31):

And being aware of that other people’s thresholds may differ from yours. So it might be looking at the other parent and saying, I see they’re getting a little rough. I’m okay with it, but I know some parents aren’t. How are you feeling? Again? And it’s this idea as Emily just said, not that you’re sacrificing your own values or boundaries or whatever, but just that you yourself are tuning into and modeling, tuning into other people and just checking in and communication and open communication. And obviously if you see your kid, someone slamming them over a head with a metal bucket, you’re going to run and jump and protect your kid. But there are plenty of more ambiguous situations that kids get themselves into.

Dr. Sarah (17:14):

Yeah. Also, you just made me think of the fact that yeah, sometimes we’re recommending a very slow and steady approach to the intervention, even though we are saying intervene, I also know that I have, I mean, this is more with my own kids, but I remember when my son was, my daughter was, I don’t know, six months old or eight, she must’ve been kind of chronic. She’s probably like 10 months old, and he did something to hit her. And my mama bear instinct just, I picked him up and threw him across the room at the playroom. I was just like, because it was my fight or flight kicked in and I didn’t think anything through, it just happened. So I also, I want to acknowledge there’s going to be a situation I’m sure where if a kid hits your kid, you might not have the space at all in that moment to be like, okay, what should I do here? What makes the most sense? Who needs what here? You’re just like, boom, mama bear. And I also think that’s going to happen sometimes and would give ourselves a little bit of grace and you can repair with, we can all just like who, whoa, a really reaction. Everybody’s doing the best they can. I got a little freaked out by that. Sorry. How do we come back together?

Dr. Rebecca (18:32):

Everybody doing the best they can? Again, it’s like I can think of many times where I’m running across the playground, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Right? Whether it’s my own kid or another kid, and again, it’s like no one’s there to make sure your kid gets hurt or make sure their kid is the, you know what I mean? Everybody’s there for the same reason. Everybody wants this to go well, and if that looks different for different people, what can we do to have those be healthy and helpful and productive conversations as opposed to accusing and blaming ones?

Dr. Sarah (19:14):

Yeah, I like that. It’s like we’re all on the same team at the end of the day. It just sometimes doesn’t always feel that way, but if we could assume that we are and find that commonality and that good intention and that, how are we all trying hard at the same thing, but we’re just showing up in a different way in this moment that goes such a long for the kids, for the grownups, for everybody. It goes so far.

Dr. Emily (19:41):

Yeah.

Dr. Sarah (19:41):

That’s a good…

Dr. Emily (19:45):

I ike your Kumbaya ending.

Dr. Rebecca (19:47):

 I was about to say cue, John Lennon, Imagine.

Dr. Sarah (19:54):

Kumbaya – I shouldn’t sing. That’s never good. All right. I feel like we’ve hit this one. No pun intended. Oh my god.

Dr. Rebecca (20:06):

Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Sarah Bren.

Dr. Sarah (20:09):

Our podcast producer is not here today to edit, to reign us in, so we’re going wild. I hope she leaves all of this in the episodes so you can hear how ridiculous we are at the end of recording episodes. But thank you so much for sending in your questions. We love it. Please send in more. It gives us something to talk about with each other and we love it. So we hope you found this helpful, and if you did find it helpful, in addition to sending in your question, please leave a rating and review wherever you stream your podcast because it truly helps the podcast get out to more people and it is greatly appreciated. Alright, thank you Emily. Rebecca, I love you guys.

Dr. Emily (20:51):

Bye.

Dr. Rebecca (20:51):

Always a pleasure. Bye guys.

Dr. Sarah (20:55):

Thank you so much for listening. As you can hear, parenting is not one size fits all. It’s nuanced and it’s complicated. So I really hope that this series where we’re answering your questions really helps you to cut through some of the noise and find out what works best for you and your unique child. If you have a burning parenting question, something you’re struggling to navigate or a topic you really want us to shed light on or share research about, we want to know, go to drsarahbren.com/question to send in anything that you want, Rebecca, Emily, and me to answer in Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions. That’s drsarahbren.com/question. And check back for a brand new securely attached next Tuesday. And until then, don’t be a stranger.