Dr. Sarah (00:02):

Ever wonder what psychologists moms talk about when we get together, whether we’re consulting one another about a challenging case or one of our own kids, or just leaning on each other when parenting feels hard, because trust me, even when we do this for a living, it’s still hard. Joining me each week in these special Thursday shows are two of my closest friends, both moms, both psychologists, they’re the people I call when I need a sounding board. These are our unfiltered answers to your parenting questions. We’re letting you in on the conversations the three of us usually have behind closed doors. This is Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions.

(00:41):

Hello, Dr. Rebecca Hershberg. Welcome back.

Dr. Rebecca (00:47):

Hello. Hello. Thank you.

Dr. Sarah (00:49):

So we’re going to be answering a listener question today. You ready for it?

Dr. Rebecca (00:53):

I’m ready.

Dr. Sarah (00:54):

Okay. So this parent writes in. Hi there. I’m hoping you can help with something I’ve been struggling with lately. My six-year-old son has a really hard time losing, whether it’s a board game, a race in the backyard, or even something silly like who finishes their snack first, what’s supposed to be fun often ends in tears, tantrums, or him storming off in frustration. We’ve tried reminding him it’s just a game and encouraging him to focus on having fun, but in the moment his emotions take over and can get really intense. I get that losing is hard at this age, but I’m not sure how to help him build resilience and good sportsmanship without turning every game into a teachable moment. Any advice on how to handle these situations calmly and help him learn to lose with grace while still keeping things fun would be so appreciated?

Dr. Rebecca (01:42):

Good question. This is so common. I get this question all the time, and I have lived it in my house at many different developmental stages.

Dr. Sarah (01:49):

Oh yeah, and it’s layered, I think, where there’s layers to her question, which shows that she’s a pretty tuned in and sophisticated thinker when it’s coming to light. It’s not just like, why don’t I get my kid to be better, more gracious loser, right? No, she’s understanding that his emotions are taking over. It’s not easy for him and that there’s a stretch that needs to happen in order to get that resilience and distress tolerance to be a good sportsmanship person. I don’t really know now that…

Dr. Rebecca (02:22):

And that she doesn’t want every game to become her lecturing. She also said that.

Dr. Sarah (02:28):

Yeah.

Dr. Rebecca (02:29):

I want to just chill out.

Dr. Sarah (02:30):

Don’t have to be fun, kid.

Dr. Rebecca (02:31):

Can’t handle it. So what do I do? I think it’s such an important and common question. It’s about emotion regulation. I mean, I don’t know where you want to go with this question. I can get quite concrete quite quickly with just some tools and strategies that I can say.

Dr. Sarah (02:52):

Yeah, let’s start with those. I could go deep into the psychology of it, which we could if we have time. But yeah, let’s just give some brass acks strategies.

Dr. Rebecca (03:04):

Yeah, I mean, I think as is often the case with kids that are struggling with emotion regulation, and again, even if it’s developmentally typical to do so, which it still is at age six, certainly it’s about the scaffolding. It’s about providing a foundation or scaffolding in advance so that they can start to expect what’s coming and have time to shore up their defenses against it. So I think of it as an inoculation. It’s almost like giving them a vaccine. I’m going to give you the thought that you might be disappointed in advance so that when the disappointment comes, it goes down easier essentially. And so what that often looks like, I think concretely is before a game is played or before a race is run, I dunno about a snack race, but that’s a different story is saying, let’s absolutely. Let’s play this game. Absolutely.

(04:03):

Let’s do this thing. I just want to remind you though, that one of the things that happens in this game is that someone wins and someone loses. And let’s just think about, depending on your kids, that may be all you have to say or you may say, how’s that going to feel? And I get not wanting every game to have that, but even just planting the seed. I mean, my kids got to the point where if I walked into a room and they were playing game, they would look up and be like, we know someone’s going to lose. But it was important, and particularly for a game that takes you by surprise like Uno or Sorry, or Jenga. Chutes and Ladders before they spin the wheel to say just a reminder with how this game works, you might land on a ladder, but you might land on a shoot. Let’s see what happens. Because it takes away that element of surprise, which I sometimes like into an assault. Your brain is still relatively new to feelings of frustration, of disappointment of, I don’t understand yet quite the rationality. Why does it have to feel this bad if we’re playing a game? It just takes away that element of surprise. You can gear up for it and then be prepared for it. Oh, remember, we’re going to pick a car. He’s going to put his card down on Uno. It might be a wild draw for, let’s see what it is. Jenga absolutely the constant…

Dr. Sarah (05:28):

Especially because of the building of the anticipatory excitement slash tension. And then when it collapses, it’s like, oh my everything. It can really send you into fight or flight.

Dr. Rebecca (05:43):

And if you did it, if you’re the little kid.

(05:47):

So I think that goes a really long way of just the talking in advance and before the event happens. Then when the event happens, you’ve already named it. You’ve already prepared your kid for it. And they may still be, and presumably will still be disappointing or frustrating, but you can then bring in praise for check you out. You just lost and it’s hard and you’re still sitting here versus let’s say running away and screaming and you just said, let’s play again. And I didn’t hear any yelling. I always use the phrase, and you were able to keep a calm body and a kind voice. I’m so proud of you. And again, it’s not having the feelings. It can be as disappointed or frustrated as they want. It’s for the coping skills, it’s for the stretching, it’s for the feeling those feelings while still engaging in appropriate and pro-social behaviors.

Dr. Sarah (06:45):

And at first they might not. And that’s the scaffolding is like we’re we’re trying to hinge our way closer to the target by finding the littlest of progress.

Dr. Rebecca (06:56):

Improvements, right.

Dr. Sarah (06:58):

And then working our way there. Over time.

Dr. Rebecca (07:03):

Your kid may scream and burst into tears and you can praise them that they didn’t call their brother a name. You can, it’s notice, noticing the game.

Dr. Sarah (07:14):

Noticing the game. I love that. I also think it’s so important and this mom writes, she’s like, we’ve tried reminding him, it’s just a game and encouraging to focus on having fun. And it might be that she’s doing that before the game, but my guess is it’s probably happening as she’s noticing, getting more and more frustrated. And I think that speaks to this timing. We always think about the before, during, and after of a meltdown. And I think a lot of us tend to intervene in the during and then maybe in the after or debriefing great. But the before and not just right before the game, but before is everything after the last meltdown all the way to before we start a game again, it could be we played a game on a Wednesday, it didn’t go so well. Let’s say in theory we’re going to play a game on Friday.

(08:12):

On Thursday we’re working on skill building or in times unrelated to the actual game playing or having just lost. So we’re building distress tolerance in times that have actually nothing to do with playing a game too. You are building that skill of other types of disappointments, other type of frustrations that they’re able to tolerate. Maybe losing a game is too big, but struggling with tying their shoe and being able to tolerate that and do it and helping build that muscle of frustration, tolerance. In other places, it’s still the same muscle that they’re using for the game. It’s not different. So sometimes, yes, helping them build the skill in the context in which they’re struggling, but also being willing to remember and remind yourself, we are working on this skill in moments that seem unrelated, but still using that distress tolerance or frustration tolerance.

Dr. Rebecca (09:08):

I think that’s a great point. I also think depending on the timing is really going to influence whether saying something like it’s only a game is going to land as helpful or demeaning thinking. I’m just trying to think of things that I’ve, we talked about this a lot, but things I’ve been really upset about in the past. If someone’s like, oh, but it was only a day or it was only one time or it was only if you’re in a place where it’s really upsetting, it’s like, wait, so now I feel crazy. I am genuinely upset about what’s happening in this board game and you’re telling me with your voice and your body language that that’s really not, it’s like unintentionally. Of course it’s like another way of, it’s a little bit invalidating. It’s like you’re sort of saying this isn’t that big a deal in nicer words.

(10:05):

And we all know what it’s like when you’re upset and someone says, this isn’t that big. And also if you’re kid, I mean the other thing is getting out of our adult shoes, they don’t have a ton going on. Playing a game of playing outside with their friends kind of is their day, let’s say. So losing a race is more to them than it is to us. So I understand the intention and the importance of teaching and learning the importance of play and things that are light and that you don’t have to take too seriously. But I think that comes more from modeling than from explicitly saying, especially when emotions are running high, it’s only a game. Just have fun. It’s supposed to be fun to me. There’s a chastising that’s implied and that’s not going to help a kid feel more regulated.

Dr. Sarah (11:03):

But interestingly, those exact same words before the game starts, before that sense of vulnerability is activated, right? You’re speaking to a completely different part of them, right?

(11:16):

When you’re saying, Hey bud, we’re about to play Uno. Who’s excited to play Uno? Okay, remember, how does the game of Uno play again? What are the rules? Does everyone remember the rules? Even if everyone absolutely knows the rules of Uno, I always do this. I always make kids slow down and tell me how a game is played before we play it. I just play dumb because what I’m doing very intentionally is slowing them down and holding them in that state of readiness a little longer. I’m stretching that distress tolerance. I want to get to the game and I’m slowing you down. I’m causing friction. I’m making you explain it. And that orients them a little bit more. It keeps their prefrontal cortex a little bit more on instead of just jumping right into the play. And in that time where I’m saying, what are the rules of the game?

(12:05):

I’m also saying, so wait, are there a winner and a loser? How do we win the game? How do we lose the game? And then that invites a little opportunity to be like, okay, so if we lose, if I lose, how am I going to feel about that? If you lose, how do you think you’re going to feel about how do we feel about, is this going to be a big deal if we win or lose or a not so big a deal? It’s almost like motivational interviewing in getting them to say it out loud for themselves. They bought, they’ve got buy-in a little bit more. They’re a little bit more inclined to own that. They said it’s not going to be a big deal. It still might be a big deal, but they’re a little bit more buffered against it. So getting them to sort of on their own identify, oh, you know what?

(12:54):

This is not going to be such a big deal If I lose, what can we do? What happens if we lose? Do we just play again? So we’re just kind of trying to orient them to the scale of the stakes, which are low and then we play. I just think it gets kids a little bit more, like you were saying, inoculated to the shock of what’s going to happen when they lose because it’s not a shock. We’ve just kind of practiced it ahead of time, which I know is exactly what you were saying, but I’m trying to illustrate it in real time, play it out with parents. I know I just do better with examples.

Dr. Rebecca (13:30):

And also because I think, but the one thing I want to say, I think that was really, really helpful and I could see this parent being like, but I don’t want to do that every time because it does start to sound like a therapy session or kind of didactic. And again, you don’t have to do all of it every time you just went through Sarah, every question that you might ask to kids that are working on getting along better and losing better in your office in the context of a social skills group, you can also just say, okay, someone just remind me of the rules. Okay, great. And if we win, everybody’s going to give the person a high five, and if we lose, you can sort of go through it quickly or come up with your own abbreviated version based on who your kid is and what your kid is into. Because I do get that whole thing of like, do I have to do that every time we’re playing a game? The answer is games will be much more fun if you do it a little bit, but you don’t have to do a whole long thing.

Dr. Sarah (14:28):

No. Although I think sometimes we think that’s going to be so annoying and so much work and there’s going to be so much suck the fun out of it, but I guarantee if you just give it a try, you can make that playful and part of the fun, there’s almost a way of playing with the anticipation of the game with your kids. Wait, wait, hold on, let’s wait. What are we going to do? It’s playfulness. It’s almost teasing them in a fun playful way.

Dr. Rebecca (14:56):

Yeah, no, that’s true. And especially if you have more than one kid that you’re going to play with, it’s also a way of getting them on the same page because everybody knows the peril of you start the game of Uno and one person thinks you’re playing with stacking, one person thinks you’re playing without stacking. It hasn’t been discussed in advance. If you go over the rules, one of the things you’re doing is making sure everyone is in agreement about exactly what the rules are, which is important as kids get older.

Dr. Sarah (15:25):

Right. And that’s also modeling good social problem solving. Like, Hey, are we all on the same page? Are we all playing by the same set of rules? Yeah, we’re doing that in Uno, but that’s actually a super important life skill, especially for kids who have low frustration tolerance. I might struggle with navigating the stuff when you’re not there. Refereeing uno, right? These are the same kids I would assume that might have a little trouble on the playground or at reassess when they’re not being hyper scaffolded.

Dr. Rebecca (16:00):

Right.

Dr. Sarah (16:00):

This is practice.

Dr. Rebecca (16:04):

Yep.

Dr. Sarah (16:04):

Absolutely. One other thing I feel like is worth just noting because of what she was saying about just the sort of competitive quality that maybe it’s not just about, I don’t like losing, but I need to finish my snap first. I need to be first at everything. And I see this a lot in kids, and so there is this frustration tolerance piece, but I also think there’s a self-esteem confidence piece too of sometimes I feel small and that drives a need to be big. And I don’t mean physically, although sometimes this does happen with see kids who are on the smaller side sometimes feel like they need to compensate and be more competitive. Not all across the board, but I do. I think this can be a piece of how do we help them in times outside of playing games in times outside of the activation of their competition, help them feel a sense of ownership, territory capability, authentic sense of self-confidence in places. I sometimes think that can turn down the volume on this intense drive to be the first. Be the biggest. Be the best.

Dr. Rebecca (17:17):

Yeah. I think that’s important. I see that also. I mean, again, like the line leader, right? They have to be and talking about, yeah, let’s just say I get that.

Dr. Sarah (17:30):

Yeah. It’s like a social hierarchy thing. And I think helping teach kids how to navigate that and also find their places where they are feeling really confident and competent authentically, and then don’t have to puff up as much feeling more settled. But yeah, maybe that’s an episode to come where we dive into that self-esteem stuff more

Dr. Rebecca (17:54):

Foreshadowing.

Dr. Sarah (17:57):

Yes. Well, thank you for writing in this question. It was fantastic and we had fun answering it, and I hope this was helpful. Thank you, Rebecca, for coming on.

Dr. Rebecca (18:07):

My pleasure. Always.

Dr. Sarah (18:09):

We should go play some Uno.

Dr. Rebecca (18:12):

With or without snacking.

Dr. Sarah (18:15):

It depends. All right, talk soon.

Dr. Rebecca (18:18):

Bye.

Dr. Sarah (18:21):

Thank you so much for listening. As you can hear, parenting is not one size fits all. It’s nuanced and it’s complicated. So I really hope that this series where we’re answering your questions really helps you to cut through some of the noise and find out what works best for you and your unique child. If you have a burning parenting question, something you’re struggling to navigate or a topic you really want us to shed light on or share research about, we want to know, go to drsarahbren.com/question to send in anything that you want, Rebecca, Emily, and me to answer in Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions. That’s drsarahbren.com/question. And check back for a brand new securely attached next Tuesday. And until then, don’t be a stranger.