411. Q&A: How do I help my toddler cope with an absent parent?

Dr. Sarah Bren (00:02):

Ever wonder what psychologists moms talk about when we get together, whether we’re consulting one another about a challenging case or one of our own kids, or just leaning on each other when parenting feels hard, because trust me, even when we do this for a living, it’s still hard. Joining me each week in these special Thursday shows are two of my closest friends, both moms, both psychologists, they’re the people I call when I need a sounding board. These are our unfiltered answers to your parenting questions. We’re letting you in on the conversations the three of us usually have behind closed doors. This is Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions.

(00:41):

Hello, welcome back to the Securely Attached Podcast. This is the Beyond the Sessions segment, and we are going to answer a listener question, and I have Dr. Rebecca Hershberg here with me.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (00:54):

Hello. Always a pleasure.

Dr. Sarah Bren (00:57):

So are you ready for our listener question of the day?

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (01:01):

Bring it on.

Dr. Sarah Bren (01:02):

Okay. So this listener writes in. Hi, Sarah. I was wondering if you could answer my question around an absent father or parent and how to navigate that emotionally for your child’s healthy brain development. My daughter has met her dad in Mexico because I’ve brought her there four times. She knows her family there as well, having spent a total of two months visiting there. She’s two years and three months old, and she’s having big emotions around dads. She asks about other people’s dads and brings dads up a lot in conversation and asks lots of questions about dads in general. When she’s falling asleep, she’s asking for her dad. And as a toddler, when I pick her up from preschool, she was having a hard time and crying, saying she wants her daddy. Any advice around these difficult conversations would be helpful. Thanks for your work in this field. Oh man, this is a tough one. It is. I feel for this mom.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (02:01):

It is. And I also just want to say, and I say this on this podcast a lot, that just hearing the question highlights what incredibly thoughtful and intentional and tuned in parents there are out there.

Dr. Sarah Bren (02:16):

Right. Which is important in the context of this question in particular, because really I want to reinforce for this listener and this parent that the research really bears out that a child’s ability to have just one solid attachment relationship is predictive and supportive of secure attachment patterns later in life. So in a situation like this where you have so little control as a parent over your child’s access to a particular attachment figure in their life, either they are present, but they are not able to be a secure base for that child or that they’re just physically not present. They are absent and not able therefore to be a secure base for that child. Your relationship with this child is, one, I don’t want to put so much pressure on you to think like, oh, it’s ride or die on you, but I bet it feels that way a lot.

(03:16):

And the one thing, while that’s a tremendous amount of pressure potentially, and that’s a lot to have to kind of carry, and we could talk about that for sure, but it is hopefully reassuring to hear that what is in your control, which is the relationship your daughter has with you, is really what’s going to make or break. Like that’s enough. That is enough when it comes, because you’re specifically asking about helping support your child’s healthy brain development and relationship with you, that’s where I’d focus.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (03:54):

Yeah, that’s exactly control over that. That’s exactly what I was going to say is that like, especially when we’re talking about the link between attachment and brain development, what predicts kids’ resilience, what predicts their positive outcomes and a range of different measures is, do they have one adult in their life who is tuned into them emotionally with whom they can form a secure attachment? It can be a parent, it can be a coach, it can be a religious figure. So the fact that this child has a mom who is so loving and present puts them in really good stead when it comes to that. And then going a step further, which we’ve certainly talked about on this podcast, what that attuned adult needs to look like in terms of their attunement is truly good enough, right? Versus perfect. I mean, just you were hinting at that a little bit, but that doesn’t mean that that person has to, in order to make up for other absences, be 100% all the time.

(05:01):

They really can be flailing a good amount of time and those benefits will still arise for the child. So I think, I hope that that answers this listeners the first part of the question, which is how do I navigate that? You navigate that by just taking a deep breath, exhaling, and realizing that when it comes to healthy brain development, the attachment or lack thereof that your child has with their father won’t play a role on that sort of basic level because of the attachment with you. Then the question is, how do we navigate those hard conversations, which is kind of part two?

Dr. Sarah Bren (05:41):

Right. And that’s, I think to bridge that, I also will say, because it’s very understandable for a parent to see a child’s distress around the absence of a parent or confusion around the absence of a parent or grief around the absence of a parent and very understandably assume that that means that that’s a sign that they’re going to have attachment issues or their development is going to be in some way impaired. I think it is worth disentangling the two of like, just because a child is upset or distressed or really struggling with something that’s going on in their life doesn’t automatically mean it’s going to necessarily impair their attachment relationship with a parent, like the present parent.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (06:34):

Well, and that’s all the misconceptions in the current parenting space, right? On Instagram, this idea that if a child will say, “I hate you, ” or whatever it is, and it’s like, “Oh gosh, what if I’m not a secure attachment figure?” The presence of emotions generally have nothing to do with…

Dr. Sarah Bren (06:52):

Right. But even in this case, which is really specific, this kid is saying like, “I want daddy. I want daddy. Mom’s picking her up from daycare and she’s asking for daddy.” And I think a parent could really understandably infer from that like, “Oh no, they’re not feeling like I’m enough. I’m not being their secure base, their attachment figure. This is going to mess things up.” And I can totally understand how those thoughts and worries and fears are going to roll through a parent’s mind in that moment, but I don’t want to diminish the pain that both the child and the parent might be feeling in that moment, but I also want to…

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (07:29):

Right. You want to differentiate the pain from the experience of the attachment.

Dr. Sarah Bren (07:32):

The threat. The threat of the damage to the development.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (07:37):

Right. And also, I would take it one step further and say the fact that the child does say that to mom actually suggests the opposite, which is that there is a secure attachment. If the child felt like they needed to protect mom in some unconscious way, “I really wish dad was picking me up, but I’m not going to say anything to mom because it’ll hurt her feelings.” Or, “I really wish dad would pick me up, but if I say that to mom, mom’s going to yell at me and so I’m just going to stay quiet.” Now again, if this has happened to you, can I say 100% certainly that therefore your attachment is messed up? No, none of this is meant to diagnose any kind of attachment in the podcast, but I will say there’s no question in my mind that it’s a tremendously positive sign that your daughter is letting all of these feelings, particularly about this other parent, kind of hang out around you and using you as a support to go to when it comes to her own distress or anger or frustration or whatever it is, that that other parent isn’t there. That to me speaks of a very positive attachment relationship as opposed to the opposite.

Dr. Sarah Bren (08:48):

Yes. And so now I just feel like I think we’ve covered attachment. I want to move to the development piece because I also just want to name, this is a pretty young kid, she’s just a little over two years and I think it’s also maybe helpful to just kind of contextualize that for a little bit because I think at that age, the awareness of relationships of people, of objects, the idea of like object permanence and like internalizing objects and starting to under … They’re at a place in development where like they’re very aware of who their people are and they are probably having, this is a hot time for separation anxiety. It’s a hot time for noticing when someone is leaving and not being a hundred percent sure if they’re coming back, even though you come back every time, there’s like anxiety around that, right?

(09:50):

And so the just developmental timeline that this kid happens to be on at the moment, I just want to normalize that it kind of makes sense to me that this kid is very interested in dads. Starting to notice in a very, very base, very young, I don’t want to say primitive, but I don’t mean primitive in a bad way, just like in a brain maturation degree, but in a sort of young way, starting to recognize family system structures, right? Oh, my friend at school gets picked up by, sometimes by her mommy and sometimes by her daddy, I get picked up by my mommy. Where’s my daddy? There’s a lot of situations where they’re going to start to notice what’s alike, what’s missing, what’s the same, what’s different? Just this is where their brains are kind of like firing right now. And so their awareness of the absence of dad on a very kind of just like symbolic representational object level, like it’s just going to be more noticeable to them than it might have been at a younger age.

(11:02):

And I think, I don’t know if it’s fully moved to the … It’s a much more sophisticated place, I believe. Correct me if you would disagree, Rebecca, but I think it’s at two years old, I don’t think this child is really grappling with like, what does it mean that I don’t have … It’s not an identity question. It’s not where like, does my dad love me? Where is he? Have I been abandoned by him? I don’t think we’re getting to that depth at all at this point. It’s really kind of more like, remember on Sesame Street when we were little and it’s like some of these things are not like the other. Some of these things don’t belong. They’re pattern recognition. It’s like, what’s supposed to be here? What’s missing? It’s really kind of simplistic at this level.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (11:52):

I agree with that. 100%.

Dr. Sarah Bren (11:54):

The kids probably pick it up on that a lot and is starting to notice it. And when kids notice something and they’re trying to make sense of it, they revisit it and revisit it and revisit it and revisit it. So that’s why you’re seeing this child start to like ask a lot about other people’s dads or bring dads up in conversation or ask lots of questions because it’s like, “Huh, there isn’t a dad here in my house. This is different than what I’m noticing in other places.” So again, I wouldn’t read too much into it. I think it’s a great opportunity at this age to start telling the story, helping your child make sense of this, answering their questions in a developmentally appropriate way, a simple way, a neutral way. A thing I love to say, a phrase I love to say to all kinds of people in different situations is, is I love the phrase, “Families come in all shapes and sizes.” I think that is like such a useful starting point for so many conversations when we’re talking about helping kids make sense of what’s different about my family or what I might feel confused about.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (13:03):

And there’s some amazing books for kids, even at this young age about families that come in different shapes and sizes, single parents, same gender identity, parents, grandma lives with them, all different … And so again, depending on where this listener lives with her child, it may be that there’s not necessarily a lot of representation where they live, and that’s when turning to books or turning to TV or movies or whatever can be really, really helpful to find that representation. The other thing I wanted to add is that one of the things I’ve found in my work with families where there’s a particularly sensitive issue to a parent, and I forget what this is called in social psychology, I think maybe confirmation bias, they notice it more, right? So it may be that, again, and I’m not saying this isn’t happening, right? I’m not gaslighting you, being like, “They don’t talk about daddy.” Of course they talk about daddy.

(14:02):

They may be asking questions about other things that just don’t resonate as deeply for you, and so you’re not noticing them as much. And so again, just to be aware, and this is true for every single Beyond the Sessions episode we’ve ever done, to be aware of how your own stuff, I always call it, influences these interactions, right? How is your reaction when she asks about daddy? Your reaction may be more interesting than when she asks about juice, right? And so she’s going to ask more about daddy because there was something a little interesting about the way that you responded, which is not to say there’s anything wrong. It’s just to say that these interactions are dynamic. They’re changing and they involve two people. And so to be aware of what you may be contributing that makes these interactions or these questions keep coming up, which is not an unhealthy thing, to the contrary, I think it’s actually really great that your child feels safe, but just that level of awareness that you’re bringing something to the table too, I think can be very helpful.

Dr. Sarah Bren (15:10):

And even in like a positive way, like it can be a tool, right? Because if your kid is asking you about something that you know is certainly tough for you, potentially tough for them, you probably are going to spend more time attending to those questions, which obviously if it’s, I’m flustered, I don’t know how to respond to that, or I’m deeply like grieving when I respond to you because I’m like so upset about … I get flooded by my own feelings about what these questions are bringing up for me. If that’s happening, really worth kind of processing that kind of with a friend or with an adult peer or a therapist or somebody. If you’re flooded with your own grief when your child asks questions about where dad is, one that’s totally normal and understandable and it might be making it, to your point, Rebecca, a little bit sticky for your kid.

(16:09):

And so they revisit it more because they’re just trying to make sense of now two things, their feelings and your feelings. But also, if you are feeling, “I don’t know how to answer that, ” that could also be leading to them kind of getting stuck there and coming back to it. So that’s what we’re going to help you do. Now you have lots of things you can say, including, it’s a really good question and I have to think about how I want to answer that. And let’s find some time later today or in the next couple of days to sit down and really talk about this and Nile can answer your questions then. I love to be able to buy time when I need time to be doing my A- game parenting. Sometimes you need to prepare for that. Pop quizzes are no fun. So being able to say, you have permission to say, “Oh, what a good question.

(16:57):

Let me think about that for a little bit and think about how I want to talk to you about this and we’ll come back to it soon.” And then you must come back to it. That is important. But it also may be that your reaction is, “This is so important. I’m giving it my attention because it isn’t as important to me as when you ask about juice or when is pickup time, but this is a big one.” And so I respond in a different way, which also might make it sticky for your kid, but that’s not a bad thing, right? It just means that you are creating a dynamic where they understand they can keep talking to you about this and so they keep doing it and that’s good.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (17:33):

So I just- Well, yes. And I’m sorry to interrupt, but this time I did it on purpose because it’s such a good segue to what I was going to say and that may make it extra interesting as to why it keeps coming up at bedtime, right?

Dr. Sarah Bren (17:47):

Yes. Yes.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (17:47):

Because kids bring up things at bedtime where it’s like, “Oh, mom’s about to leave to say goodnight. I think I’m going to mention my dad because that usually gets her to stick around more than if I ask for juice.” So being aware of kind of when you’re giving a lot of attention to this very, very good question, but when it might be being used, not intentionally, but just sort of as a tool because your child has learned that it makes you stick around, you connect more. It’s also okay, let’s say at bedtime, if she’s asking for daddy to say something really simple and boundary, like, “Not talking about daddy now, we’ll talk about daddy tomorrow.” Just like, nope, not like just to sort of set a boundary so that it doesn’t have to become that each time she mentions it, we drop everything to talk about it because that can be the pendulum swinging sort of very far in the other direction. So as usual, I hope we’re not over complicating this.

Dr. Sarah Bren (18:47):

When do we not?

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (18:48):

Right, but there are a lot of things to consider, developmental stage, whatever, all the things.

Dr. Sarah Bren (18:53):

In addition to trying to have some language around helping them make sense of and answer their questions about where dad is, I think specifically naming feelings like it makes sense that you might feel sad or it might make sense that you miss him or that you’re curious about this or that you … I just feel like helping normalize the kids, assuming that the kid is able to show you a feeling and you’re confident that is the feeling that they’re having to name that for them and also helping them make sense of not just the story of the family system, but the story of their experience. and how they feel about it.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (19:34):

Yeah, no, I know. We saw daddy over Christmas and he’s not here now and that can be sad, right? Yeah. That sort of thing. Absolutely. I don’t know. Maybe we end by circling back to how clear it is that this mom is doing such an incredible job crushing it.

Dr. Sarah Bren (19:51):

Yeah, I think so. Well, thank you so much, Rebecca. Good talking to you as always.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (19:56):

Always a pleasure. Absolutely. It restores my faith in the amazing parents that are out there.

Dr. Sarah Bren (20:01):

I know, I know. Keep going, guys. You got this.

Dr. Rebecca Hershberg (20:04):

I know.

Dr. Sarah Bren (20:06):

Thank you so much for listening. As you can hear, parenting is not one size fits all. It’s nuanced and it’s complicated. So I really hope that this series where we’re answering your questions really helps you to cut through some of the noise and find out what works best for you and your unique child. If you have a burning parenting question, something you’re struggling to navigate or a topic you really want us to shed light on or share research about, we want to know, go to drsarahbren.com/question to send in anything that you want, Rebecca, Emily, and me to answer in Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions. That’s drsarahbren.com/question. And check back for a brand new securely attached next Tuesday. And until then, don’t be a stranger.