Dr. Sarah (00:02):

Ever wonder what psychologists moms talk about when we get together, whether we’re consulting one another about a challenging case or one of our own kids, or just leaning on each other when parenting feels hard, because trust me, even when we do this for a living, it’s still hard. Joining me each week in these special Thursday shows are two of my closest friends, both moms, both psychologists, they’re the people I call when I need a sounding board. These are our unfiltered answers to your parenting questions. We’re letting you in on the conversations the three of us usually have behind closed doors. This is Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions.

(00:41):

Hello, we are back at the Securely Attached podcast. Today on the Beyond the Session segment where we answer your listener question, we have Dr. Emily Upshur here. Thank you for coming on the show.

Dr. Emily (00:56):

Yay.

Dr. Sarah (00:57):

All right. So this question is coming from a parent with a three-year-old. They wrote in, hi, how can I help my three-year-old preschooler who is still developing his M impulse control when he has aggressive behaviors, he hits and grabs other children at school and home from what we observed. He’s not showing anger or frustration when this happens in play, and it seems to be unprovoked. The other kiddos are sometimes even doing their own thing or simply walking by him. Thanks so much. So I don’t know, Emily, do you have a thought? I have some thoughts that jump out right away when I read something like this. Am I reading your mind?

Dr. Emily (01:39):

Read my mind. Go for it.

Dr. Sarah (01:41):

Are you thinking about the difference between sensory seeking hitting versus hitting out of an actual anger or frustration?

Dr. Emily (01:49):

Well, sensory seekers in general. Yeah.

Dr. Sarah (01:52):

Okay. All right. So we’re on the same page here. Why don’t we start with explaining what is sensory seeking, because that might not be a familiar term for everyone who’s listening.

Dr. Emily (02:01):

I mean, I think that the most relatable way to think about sensory behaviors, either seeking or inhibiting behaviors, is the most colloquial term would be person temperament. If you’re someone, imagine you’re someone who doesn’t like a lot of loud noises, or you don’t like a lot of sensory input, either sound, smell, sight, you might be a little bit of an inhibitor. You don’t love sensory things, but if you’re a sensory seeker, you could be someone who loves to touch those people that you meet and they’re already giving you a hug. Like the close talkers. Yeah, the close or the people who are touchy, they’re going to touch you when they talk to you. Those are people who invite more of that sensory input, and they sort of need that in their social interactions or in their day-to-day lives, and actually in an effort to self-regulate, right?

(02:58):

So sensory avoiders, they are shy or they don’t like a loud noises. They’re doing that to self-regulate. They’re going inside of themselves a little bit to self-regulate. Sensory seekers are also doing touching and close talking and sitting next to you, or if you’ve ever had it sat next to someone on a plane or the subway who leans into you a little bit, those are sensory stairs. They’re also doing that to self-regulate. It’s a way that you get input into your sensory system. So with a child who’s doing some of these behaviors and this parent says it seems unprovoked or even that other kids aren’t necessarily engaged, that’s the first thing that comes to mind for me, is this some sensory seeking behavior instead of a behavioral problem, for example.

Dr. Sarah (03:47):

Right? This mom does describe that. The original question is how do I help my kid with aggressive behaviors? And yes, the hitting and grabbing we could sort of label as aggressive behaviors, but the problem with that label is that it implies that it’s driven out of a feeling of anger or frustration that is the implicit connecting or the implicit impetus of an aggressive behavior. Whereas it could be, and obviously we don’t know this kid, and we have to make some inferences here, but it could be that what this mom is labeling as an aggressive behavior, the hitting or the grabbing might be better labeled as a sensory seeking behavior because that actually is going to more accurately describe the source, the driving force that’s resulting in the observable behavior.

Dr. Emily (04:50):

I also think it helps with the intervention, right? Because an aggressive behavior kind of insinuates an intentionality, right? Sort volitional, and this sounds a little either sensory or kind of impulsive. There’s that tone that there’s a little bit of that feeling here too, where we can certainly intervene in this. But there are other things you can do prophylactically for sensory seeking behaviors.

Dr. Sarah (05:18):

And I really agree. I want to talk about what we could do prophylactically, but first I want to tweak one thing you said, because I think this idea of it being volitional, if it’s aggressive versus being a volitional, if it’s sensory seeking, I wouldn’t call it volitional in either case. I just think it’s, what is it reacting to? If you are hitting or grabbing because you’re mad, you are reacting to an external cue. Somebody did something you didn’t like or thwarted you in way, and that elicited a feeling of anger or rage, and in response to that anger or rage, I volitionally, or maybe even outside of my conscious control reactively hit, but if the cue is not coming from the outside, some kid didn’t just grab my block or elbow me in the side, but instead it’s coming from inside, I am actually feeling overstimulated or I’m feeling understimulated, and that deviation from homeostasis, that moving outside of where my body wants to be at rest, I’m either seeking something or I’m overstimulated and I’m trying to regulate by hitting or grabbing. It’s still a kind of involuntary, like you were saying, reflexive reaction, but reacting to an internal cue of discomfort versus an external, like a kid did something and now I’m mad and I’m hitting them. I dunno if that’s making sense to you, but I’m trying to reframe it as I don’t think either are volitional, I just think they’re too reactive or reflexive responses to different objects, something from an external place or in a place of anger or an internal place in a place of self-regulation. Does that make sense?

Dr. Emily (07:25):

Yeah. It’s a complicated system. I think that all those things make sense. I do think you can have internal reactions for a lot of stimuli. You could be my son. Perfect example of a sensory seeking behavior. My son, when I was pregnant with my oldest, when I was pregnant with my second, was not consciously upset about that, but would bump into kids at preschool all the time, just bump into kids. So is that sensory seeking? Is that aggression? This is where it…

Dr. Sarah (07:58):

It could be a little blurry, yeah.

Dr. Emily (07:59):

I think that’s an example of what makes it a complex system that you’re discussing here. But I think maybe what you’re trying to highlight is sensory seeking behaviors really aren’t aggressive on purpose. I wonder if that’s sort of what we’re trying to illustrate.

Dr. Sarah (08:18):

And to your point, that we’re knowing what we’re dealing with, getting accurate about the right label helps us inform what we do about it. If my kid is hitting because they’re mad, I’m going to try to help them work through what made them mad. How else can I handle that feeling? That’s not going to be aggressive. If my kid is hitting, seeking sensory input, I’m not going to go and say, what made you mad because nothing made them mad, and they’re not going to really know three, they’re not going to know what to do with that question.

(08:53):

But if I suspect it’s a sensory seeking thing, my intervention is going to be more about trying to help them notice these feelings in their body of like, Ooh, I really want to grab that, or I really want to push on that and give them alternative outlets for that kind of urge. And so this is where the prophylactic thing comes in, because I think sensory seeking behaviors that are physically aggressive towards others, you need in the moment to stop ’em. But the real magic place for interventions is in the before, which you only know to do after you’ve realized it’s happened and you got to plan ahead for the next time. But what are things that parents can provide children as an alternative and as a release valve for some of these sensory urges that can reduce the amount of physically aggressive behavior that comes out of that urge?

Dr. Emily (09:51):

I mean, sensory seeking, I think things that are generally good for sensory seekers or anything that gives you a lot of gross motor input. So I know you talk a lot about rolling your kids up in blankets at night and doing a little bit of that sort of burrito smushing sensory input. I think that’s one of them. Some of the things that I, there’s a lot of frankly, OT strategies that are very, very helpful for occupational therapy strategies that are really, really helpful for this. So I always play with a lot of those, and we can sort of label and illustrate some of those out, but a lot of them happen to be proprioceptive input. So little mini trampoline, great weighted blanket or blanket burrito or whatever your family calls it. Great heavy lifting. So if this is a classroom setting, this child is in class, maybe he’s the chair stacker before he sits at circle time and leans on somebody or grabs somebody that can help reduce those kind of behaviors. I like making them socially appropriate so that your child speaking, collaborating, even at home, maybe they pick up all the books or help you carry in the groceries. Those are ways to help sensory seekers get that input, but also feel a part of the system.

Dr. Sarah (11:16):

Yeah, because that’s two things, right? The proprioceptive input so important, and what that specifically means is pressure in your joints and muscles. So any isometric exercise, pulling or pushing or compression of pulling or pushing heavy objects or being compressed like a big tight squeeze or those are all things that put pressure in the joints in our body, and that is what’s telling our brain. This is regulating. A lot of kids find proprioceptive input regulating. Some kids don’t. Some kids find it very overstimulating and do not like that, but those are probably kids that are not doing sensory seeking aggressive behaviors either.

(12:06):

So giving them that kind of heavy work and that all those things that activate that sensory input system is one thing. But the other thing that you are talking about is giving them a target and a sense of participation and belonging in the space. And that also is just super orienting for good. It’s not so much teaching. It’s not touching the sensory seeking piece, but it’s touching the impulse control piece and the presence and the prefrontal cortex being turned on like, I am engaged. I am present, I’m connected. I am a part of the group. Anything that kind of activates that sense in them is also a, that is regulating too. It’s regulating a different system.

Dr. Emily (12:53):

Well, and it integrates also a little bit of insight seed by seed. We plant, so, oh, I sit better at circle time after I’ve stacked all the chairs. We start to build awareness that the sensory input helps regulation and it helps be unquote behavior. And we want to sort of help children understand themselves. Ultimately, it’s not, if we find that they can understand themselves and we help them figure out methods and strategies to regulate, then it’s not a problem. Then the problem, it goes away and it becomes just a part of their regulatory coping system.

Dr. Sarah (13:36):

And I love that this parent sent this question, and if it feels like we didn’t answer the question or that we rewrote the question, I want to name that. That’s kind of important. This person is saying, I think my kid’s hitting because they’re, they’re doing these aggressive behaviors. I don’t think they’re angry or frustrated, but I still don’t really get what’s going on. I just think this whole conversation highlights the critical importance of just understanding that we sometimes get, not this parent clearly because asking it in this way, but I do think a lot of kids, their aggressive behaviors or aggressive behaviors get labeled as a behavioral issue. And we really focus on trying to change that behavior without first understanding what’s driving it. And when we understand in a case, perhaps the one we’re describing where, oh, the driver of this behavior is not the obvious, what we thought, behavioral anger, you need to find a different way to say I’m mad, is to say, oh, actually you’re trying to manage a different system. So I just think it’s really important how we can get derailed when we focus exclusively on the observable behavior, if that makes sense. We got to really do the detective work and figure out what is actually the source.

Dr. Emily (15:07):

And I would say, and sometimes it’s hard to figure out, ask your daycare provider, ask your preschool teacher, ask a therapist, ask an occupational therapist. Sometimes it needs a little bit more flushing out and it can be a little bit of a puzzle to solve. So don’t hesitate to use your resources for that.

Dr. Sarah (15:29):

Yeah, definitely. You don’t need to be an expert in child development. We can help you with that. All right. Thank you so much, Emily. We’ll see you soon.

Dr. Emily (15:39):

Okay. Bye.

Dr. Sarah (15:42):

Thank you so much for listening. As you can hear, parenting is not one size fits all. It’s nuanced and it’s complicated. So I really hope that this series where we’re answering your questions really helps you to cut through some of the noise and find out what works best for you and your unique child. If you have a burning parenting question, something you’re struggling to navigate or a topic you really want us to shed light on or share research about, we want to know, go to drsarahbren.com/question to send in anything that you want, Rebecca, Emily, and me to answer in Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions. That’s drsarahbren.com/question. And check back for a brand new securely attached next Tuesday. And until then, don’t be a stranger.