Dr. Sarah (00:02):

Ever wonder what psychologists moms talk about when we get together, whether we’re consulting one another about a challenging case or one of our own kids, or just leaning on each other when parenting feels hard, because trust me, even when we do this for a living, it’s still hard. Joining me each week in these special Thursday shows are two of my closest friends, both moms, both psychologists, they’re the people I call when I need a sounding board. These are our unfiltered answers to your parenting questions. We’re letting you in on the conversations the three of us usually have behind closed doors. This is Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions.

(00:41):

Hello everybody. We are back with another Beyond the Session segment of the Securely Attached podcast, and we are going to answer an awesome listener question. And I’m so proud of this mum for being so brutally honest about a very taboo topic. So I’ll put that out there and then I’m going to welcome Dr. Emily Upshur and Dr. Rebecca Hershberg back on the show to answer this awesome question.

Dr. Rebecca (01:07):

Hello, hello.

Dr. Emily (01:09):

Hi.

Dr. Sarah (01:09):

Hi. Okay, I won’t bury the lead anymore. I’m just going to read this question. She writes, I just listened to episode 280 while getting my lashes done. Smiley Winky face. And it brought up a question, when a parent bonds with and understands one of their children so easily and then finds connecting with another child so much harder, how can that parent foster a better bond with that child? I would love an entire episode on the different kinds of connections parents have with multiple children. If you haven’t done one yet, it seems like a very taboo subject, admitting that a parent might not feel as close to a particular child. It’s drilled into us that all kids must be loved equally, but what if it doesn’t feel that way? So how do you guys, I felt like that was a very, I’m glad she said that out loud.

Dr. Rebecca (02:02):

Absolutely. I’m like, what strength in vulnerability right there? And I also just hear her. There’s such a childlike voice there, but what if it doesn’t feel that way? Help me. I’m supposed to feel this and I don’t. And the asking for help is so raw and real and I applaud that.

Dr. Sarah (02:25):

Yeah, and it is, I think actually a question a lot of people have, but to this mom’s very honest acknowledgement, they feel like it’s not an acceptable question to ask. But I actually think it’s not that uncommon.

Dr. Rebecca (02:44):

I mean, I think absolutely, I think we go through life and we connect more with other people, but I mean with certain people, not other people. We connect more with certain people over others, and our kids have different personalities and some we’re going to find easier to be with than others. And I think if we can take the stigma away from just owning that, it’s not like you necessarily one better, it’s not like you necessarily think one is amazing and one is a piece of crap. I think I’m forgetting in this moment. Let me look at the question just easily, right? It’s easily versus difficult. If you feel easily connected with one and it’s more challenging for others, then that’s okay and that makes sense. And they’re two different people.

Dr. Sarah (03:36):

Yeah. I think that’s the thing we accept. Well, at least I hope we accept because we talk about this a lot on the podcast, that a child is allowed and will have very different relationships with different care providers. They’re different attachment figures, and that’s okay. We accept that a kid might have a different relationship with mom than they do with dad, and I think it’s harder for us to accept the other way, which is that a parent might have a different relationship with one kid than they do with another. And the same systems are getting played out. What is the match for each of these two people?

(04:20):

How well do our nervous systems sync up? How well do our temperaments align? How well do our needs for expressing closeness or expressing how we seek soothing or comfort? Some kids don’t really want to be hugged by their parents as much as their parents want to smother them in hugs. And so you know what I mean? If there’s a mismatch in any of those places, it’s going to be a little bit more challenging to feel that connection all the time. It doesn’t mean that you don’t have a connection. It just, to your point or Rebecca, the ease with which you can slip into that sense of connection is going to be easier with some people and harder with others, including your own kids.

Dr. Emily (05:06):

And I think I would add right now, I think the other piece that’s so important for us as adults is I might have loved my squishy, yummy toddler and they met all these really nice needs in me or met a need that it’s feeling whatever, and then now they’re seven and they don’t want that and don’t not getting things change and developmental change, we change as adults a lot of fluctuation in child development. And so I think that that’s also really important that we don’t have to make this lifelong statements like I am more attached to this one child. It might be right now.

Dr. Sarah (05:51):

Yeah, I think that’s a super important thing, and it speaks to this other thing that’s worth naming here, which is encouraging this parent to not get too stuck in the story. You know what I mean? If we tell ourselves a story like, oh, I just get along with this kid better than this kid, or again, your point Emily right now changes that whole feeling of that story versus it being kind of a fixed constant that now we both have to fight against changing versus this fluid ever evolving dynamic relationship that in certain moments is going to feel harder. And also we want to stay open to it potentially feeling easier and not having a narrative in our minds that kind of prevents us from seeing the ease when it comes.

Dr. Rebecca (06:46):

I also think there can be a power as kids get older in naming it, right, taking the stigma, not like, oh, I feel so much more connected to you than your brother, right? Nothing like that. But I’ve said to one of my kids, you and your brother are different, and we have different relationships. You really don’t like to be hugged and I love hugging, so sometimes we have to find other ways to, okay, if you’re not afraid of the fact that, I don’t know if I’m being clear, but there’s a way in which that guilt, we carry that guilt around and it becomes the elephant in the room, not only in terms of not wanting to say out loud to ourselves or our partners or our friends, but also not wanting to say to our kids and our kids may notice it. It’s like mom is always laughing and whatever with my sibling and les with me. And when we say I adore you and it looks different sometimes because you are this way and I am this way, it’s okay to say those things out loud.

Dr. Sarah (07:58):

I think what you’re saying is not name, I have a preference for one of my kids to the kid, but more God name the mismatch name like, oh, what feels like you don’t like this as much as I do, and that doesn’t always…

Dr. Rebecca (08:11):

Right or it feels like it’s hard. Or I was with a client the other day who was saying she has such an easier time talking to one of her kids because that child is into theater and the other kid is into basketball and she doesn’t know anything about basketball and she’s trying to make herself care, but it doesn’t come as naturally to caring about theater. And there was a way in which her efforts to understand basketball were so admirable and I appreciated them and I think her kid really appreciated them. But it’s also just name it, just say it’s harder for me. If you weren’t my kid, I wouldn’t seek out basketball. I would seek out theater. So sometimes I have an easier time talking to your sibling about theater than I do to you about basketball because I’m not naturally as drawn to it.

(08:58):

But I love that because of you, I’m learning about something new or I love that we actually have our bond about ice cream, which can you believe your sister doesn’t like? I mean, whatever, to just be okay. Again, of course, never saying, I like you better than your sister, or I don’t like you as much as your sister, but to name the things that come more easily versus less easily because then they’re less dangerous. As we talk so often on this podcast, when you say things out loud, things that your kids are probably already noticing about the dynamics, they’re not as threatening.

Dr. Sarah (09:36):

Right. It’s interesting because talking a little bit about mismatches in terms of preference in affection or seeking out comfort and physical closeness or a mismatch in preferences or interests, but I’m also thinking about what happens and anybody who has maybe a child who’s a little bit more sensitive, reactive, explosive, just tends to trigger you more, especially if that’s in contrast to maybe another child that’s a little bit more go with the flow doesn’t activate you or your frustration as much. Speaking from some personal experience hand raised, I can see too a situation where things are just, there’s more friction in one of the relationships because there’s more rigidity in one of the children or there’s just more reactivity or explosiveness and they get frustrated more easily with you and they don’t move through the day as easily. So I can also see a scenario where that’s a real stressor on a relationship, and if the other relationship between the other child or another child in the family and the parent doesn’t create that kind of friction, I think everybody’s going to notice that and feel that on some level. And it is hard to talk about that and name that in the same way you might be like, it’s basketball. I don’t like basketball so much, versus I don’t always know how to respond to how much you trigger me or make me flooded or frustrated. So I’m mindful of sometimes it can get really tricky.

Dr. Emily (11:25):

Oh, I completely agree. And those are the kids who are always my little fiery one is always the one that’s like, you prefer my other siblings over me? You favor, you’re always taking their side. That happens. So it puts you in that position. And I guess the way I think of it is sort of strengths based models. I’ll be like, yeah, I don’t like when you yell at me. That’s not working for me, but you know what? You’re such a good friend. I’ve seen you be super kind. You can really do it in these other relationships. That’s something that’s really cool about you. I think there’s a way that you can sort of reorient to the things that you actually do. Be mindful about the things that actually resonate with you as a human in them, even in the more challenging child.

Dr. Sarah (12:25):

I also think, okay, Rebecca, you talked about guilt on the parent side of noticing the difference in maybe a preference or how much easier it is to be with one versus another child. So we have to look at the guilt piece for sure, and I think that’s important for just naming this as parents saying, it is okay to notice that and from an adult to an adult conversation just to be able to say, you are not crazy. You are not alone. You are not a bad mom for feeling ease with one more so than the other. I’m also thinking too just of what the impact of that is on the family system and family life and coming at a response to more for what’s best for the child in a situation like this too. Because I guess what I’m trying to say is I think also those kids who are harder to find ease in connection with, as much as I don’t want a parent to feel like, oh, you’re doing something wrong by having a struggle getting along with this kid and maybe preferring a different kid, that’s normal and that’s okay.

(13:37):

And also I think these kids need more from us for that very reason because these are also probably kids who are getting a lot of environmental responses of maybe it’s harder to be around me or they’re getting corrected so much from their environment, or people are really noticing the things they do wrong more because they probably do more things that bug people or make it harder to get along with. And so I think those kids, if we want to get ahead of this in the long run, I do think we have to as a parent counterbalance some of that environmental feedback of really focusing on all the things they’re doing wrong. And what you said, Emily made me think of this. I think when you are looking for the strengths that these kids have and naming it to them, it’s just like it’s all the more important because how many other people are actually taking the time to really look at their strengths. I think more often than not, they’re getting a lot of correction and a lot of attention on their weaknesses or their challenges.

Dr. Rebecca (14:43):

I think that’s true sometimes. Other times you might really connect to your boisterous, outgoing kid, boisterous and outgoing, and you’re shy, perfect rule follower, you might connect less to, but they’re not getting poor feedback necessarily. I just think…

Dr. Sarah (15:01):

Right, I’m thinking specifically about the explosive kids, and if it’s the reason why you are having a harder time getting along with one of your kids is because they’re really explosive and you guys are constantly battling.

Dr. Rebecca (15:14):

If that’s the reason, then I think it ups the likelihood that that is the feedback they’re getting from their environment. Although again, I hear about families all the time as I know you do too, where kids are angels at school or with their coaches or whatever it is. But I think also, again, being able to name it, I bet you feel like I favor your sister because I end up yelling at you more and I see how you’d feel that way. And let me just tell you, it’s little trickier for you to be on time, and that’s not a reason that I would love you any less. And it’s a reason I would get really frustrated when I am late to work. And so you’re right. Again, it’s like I’m going to validate, you’re right. I do end up getting more frustrated with you because your tendency to not be able to manage time really gets in the way of my need to show up on time for my clients. And then here’s all your other strengths like Emily said, and also that has nothing to do with how much I love you or appreciate you to just, I think a lot of times parents will try to deny, why would you feel that way?

Dr. Emily (16:29):

You’re talking about gaslighting, really. Right?

Dr. Rebecca (16:32):

Exactly. And I think parents do, and I use that word sometimes with families. I’m like, you’re just denying the reality. Parents will say, wait, of course I love you equally. Why would you ever feel like I love you more than your sister? It’s like, I can name five reasons and it’s like, it all happened yesterday and just acknowledge that and own it, and then that brings such an authenticity and connection to the relationship.

Dr. Emily (17:00):

Yeah, that’s exactly my feeling because I’m like, you want to provide your child a sturdy sense of self, and part of that is reality. Part of that is not tiptoeing around reality and not providing a false sense of what’s happening. You really think that’s a really valuable point, Rebecca.

Dr. Rebecca (17:22):

And I think I want to draw it back to the question that the listener had, which is how do we form a stronger bond with the kid that we’re not? And to me, these things that we’re mentioning are all answering that question, and I just want to make that explicit. They are always too, be authentically connected to both or all of your kids, even if those relationships feel different to everyone.

Dr. Emily (17:47):

And also that it could mean you might have to be a little bit more intentional. It might not be so easy breezy, it’s organically happening with each child the same. You might have to be a little bit more intentional in each relationship or as the relationships change.

Dr. Sarah (18:06):

I also think, because when you guys were saying you got to name it and not gaslight your kid, that helps them. Reality tests and validates you are not crazy. You’re picking up on something. But what I think we’re also doing in that moment is yes, we’re we’re saying, you are experiencing this thing. You are noticing this thing and this thing you are noticing is happening, but the why it’s happening is different than what you might interpret, right? Because thinking you don’t love me or you don’t like me, or you prefer you like them better than me or you don’t versus No, I am responding to you differently and you are observing that and that is accurate. And I can also peel back the curtain a little bit and give you some of the why, Rebecca, when you were like, I yell more because you’re late, because it’s really getting in the way of my ability to get to work on time.

(18:59):

And so that’s really hard for me and frustrating for me. That’s so different for that. That’s really filling in the blanks for your child. Whereas before they’re like, she just yells at me more than my brother, so she must like my brother more that she doesn’t like me versus, oh, she’s getting frustrated, she’s late for work. Big difference, right? In what my story is as the child. So I think also in naming it, you’re also helping correct and more accurately nuance the narrative so that it’s not like they’re inferring, that means we don’t like them or something. You know what I mean?

Dr. Rebecca (19:35):

Absolutely. Right. Because where their imaginations will go and we can help make it more nuanced for them and correct that.

Dr. Sarah (19:44):

Yeah. Well, this was cool. I’m really glad that this bomb wrote this question, so thank you. Keep writing in your questions, guys. It’s so great to hear you guys share these fears with us, these concerns with us, and I hope we’re answering them in a way that helps you feel like you’ve got some places to take them. Thank you guys.

Dr. Rebecca (20:11):

Absolutely. Pleasure as always.

Dr. Sarah (20:14):

All right, talk soon.

Dr. Emily (20:15):

Bye

Dr. Rebecca (20:16):

Bye.

Dr. Sarah (20:18):

Thank you so much for listening. As you can hear, parenting is not one size fits all. It’s nuanced and it’s complicated. So I really hope that this series where we’re answering your questions really helps you to cut through some of the noise and find out what works best for you and your unique child. If you have a burning parenting question, something you’re struggling to navigate or a topic you really want us to shed light on or share research about, we want to know, go to drsarahbren.com/question to send in anything that you want, Rebecca, Emily, and me to answer in Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions. That’s drsarahbren.com/question. And check back for a brand new securely attached next Tuesday. And until then, don’t be a stranger.