Kristin (00:00):

You don’t need all the things. I think with multiples you feel like you need two or three of everything. You don’t. So focus more on the support. However, your individual and family goals are for the type of support you need, whether it’s a meal service, someone to take care of your home, or again, a newborn care specialist or postpartum doula.

Dr. Sarah (00:35):

Pregnancy and postpartum with multiples brings a unique set of challenges. Balancing the emotional, physical and logistical demands of twins or triplets or more can feel really overwhelming for any parent, but having the right support can really make a huge difference. This week I’m joined by the owner and founder of Gold Coast Doulas, Kristin Revere, along with being an elite certified birth doula, newborn care specialist, childbirth educator, baby registry consultant, and an elite certified postpartum doula. Kristen is also the co-host of the Ask the Doulas podcast and co-author of Supported Your Guide to Birth and Baby. In this episode, we talk about how a doula or any support system that you create can work in synergy with OB-GYNs, medical teams and partners or family members to improve care outcomes. Kristen also shares what parents need to know, what questions to ask to find a doula that’s aligned with your needs, insurance options for getting some or all of your care covered and the differences between a night nurse and a doula. Plus, we’ll dive into practical tips like what an average day looks like with a postpartum doula for multiples, some baby registry tips and postpartum strategies to make your transition into parenthood smoother.

(02:02):

Do you find yourself questioning whether you’re doing this whole parenting thing right, second guessing yourself, losing sleep and falling prey to mom guilt. As a clinical psychologist, I have seen so many of the parents I work with deal with these challenges, and as a mom of two, I’ve lived them from time to time myself. But here’s the thing, when you know what to focus on and what to give yourself permission to ignore, it can make parenting feel a whole lot easier. That’s why I created a workshop specifically for new and expecting parents to help you learn these exact things so you can genuinely feel confident in parenthood right from the start. I’ll teach you what I like to call my confidence recipe and equip you with tools and strategies you could put into practice right away to challenge that self-doubt, to put an end to your panic, Googling, and finally find the ease and enjoyment in early parenthood. I believe all new parents should have access to the information and support they need to help them during this messy, chaotic, and often stressful time. So this masterclass is completely free. Just go to drsarahbren.com/confidentparenting to sign up for one of these masterclasses. That’s drsarahbren.com/confidentparenting. Or just grab the link in the episode description on whatever platform you’re streaming this episode. So don’t wait. Secure your free spot and get that boost of support, guidance and science-backed strategies that can transform your parenting experience.

(03:37):

Hi, I am Dr. Sarah Bren, a clinical psychologist and mom of two. In this podcast, I’ve taken all of my clinical experience, current research on brain science and child psychology and the insights I’ve gained on my own parenting journey and distilled everything down into easy to understand and actionable parenting insights so you can tune out the noise and tune into your own authentic parenting voice with confidence and calm. This is Securely Attached.

(04:07):

Hello, welcome back to the securely attached podcast. Today we have Kristin Revere here. You are deep in the world of doula, and I am really excited to have this conversation. First of all, just welcome. Thanks for being here.

Kristin (04:26):

Thanks for having me, Sarah. I am thrilled to be part of this discussion on doulas and certainly multiples.

Dr. Sarah (04:35):

Yes, I know. I’m very excited. We get a lot of requests to talk about multiples, so we are delivering today, no pun intended. So wait, before we get jumping into this though, I was hoping you could, well first talk a little bit about the work that you do and then also if people are like, what’s a doula? I’ve heard of it or maybe I’ve never even heard of it, but I’m not exactly sure what it is. Can we talk a little bit about the role of a doula in addition to all the work that you do?

Kristin (05:10):

Yes. Okay. So as far as my work, I own a birth and postpartum doula agency in Grand Rapids, Michigan called Gold Coast Doulas, and we focus on supporting families without judgment, no matter how or where they choose to deliver their baby, how they choose to feed their baby, and how they choose to parent their babies with multiples babies. And so we have a team of 26 contractors including lactation consultants, sleep consultants, childbirth educators, birth doulas day and overnight postpartum doulas and newborn care specialists. So there are many types of doulas and we offer four different types at the agency. So there would be bedrest support or antepartum doula. Again, with multiples, we sometimes, especially if they have other children at home, we will support them in a home or hospital and do modified childbirth education classes, help them with birth plans, do sibling care, household tasks.

(06:30):

So I personally was on bed rest for a couple weeks with preeclampsia and I didn’t have other children with my first, but I understand the struggles of being on bedrest and the worries of an induction, for example. So we do offer that service and then birth doula support. We are non-medical team members and we’re hired by the client directly and we support the couple through pregnancy with resources like giving them therapist recommendations and childbirth classes to take fitness classes that are modified appropriately and so on. And then we support during the labor and then immediately after the birth. So there are prenatal visits, a follow-up postpartum visit within two weeks of delivery is standard for our agency. And then of course, that support physically during labor emotionally and with resources and information if any decisions need to be made. Of course, we support the couple in their decision making, but can give the benefits and risks and any alternatives to non-emergent situations that may come up in labor. And we support surgical births, home births, hospitals. So with multiples, certainly whether it is a vaginal or a surgical birth, a doula may be able to be present in the OR depending on the hospital’s policies.

Dr. Sarah (08:19):

That’s amazing. What’s interesting, I’ve been doing this for a while and I’m very big fan of doulas. I did not even know that you could have an antepartum doula. I didn’t know that was a thing. I’ve even heard of death doulas. I’ve not heard of antepartum doulas.

Kristin (08:34):

Yes. And there certainly is that newer service of death doulas, we do not offer that service, but…

Dr. Sarah (08:41):

That’s sort of a very specific thing. I was just thinking in terms of different types of doula ship, and maybe we could speak even just to what the concept of a doula is because we’re talking about it applied to family planning, but a doula really is kind of as a practice is about sort of supporting someone through a transition, right?

Kristin (09:05):

Exactly. Yes. So we again, work with the care team. We’re non-medical support, but we offer both that compassion and emotional care coaching care in however they choose to plan and prepare for the birth and also support with feeding and again, those important resources through pregnancy and postpartum. Again, if they’re looking for breastfeeding groups or pelvic floor physical therapy with help recovering after the birth, then we know the experts in each of the areas. There are some hospitals throughout the United States that do offer hospital doulas. There isn’t that relationship throughout pregnancy. They’re employees of the hospital often working with Medicaid, but we are hired directly by the client. We have that relationship with the client throughout pregnancy, the way that a nurse or if it’s a big provider team, you may not know the provider, the OB or the nurse, the midwife who’s on call that day in the hospital.

Dr. Sarah (10:16):

Got it. So we are talking today about having multiples, but I’m wondering too, whether you’re having a singleton multiples, if you want to think about your pregnancy in terms of the support you need during the pregnancy planning for the birth, during the birth, after the birth, what are things that you think people tend to, misconceptions people have about getting support around that time? Why do people perhaps not seek out support?

Kristin (11:01):

So part of it is women often feel like we need to do it all where in many traditional cultures, the village, which is what doulas always existed, we just weren’t a profession before we mothered the mother in say, Malaysian culture. I happened to study some of those postpartum traditions and just caring for the mother and the infant or multiples and nourishing them handling household tasks and sibling care. So recovery and that bonding could be focused on, and that is the role of a birth doula and certainly after baby or babies are born, the postpartum doula. And so I think with multiples, especially as we mentioned before, the bedrest aspect of things and the stress of not knowing if baby or babies are going to end up in the nicu, for example. So one benefit of a birth doula would be, whether it’s a planned surgical birth or an attempted vaginal birth would be if the partner needed to go to the NICU with one or more multiples, then the doula could remain and support the mother emotionally, talk through what a NICU stay would look like, talk about feeding options if her goal was to breastfeed or pump and she’s not left alone feeling overwhelmed.

(12:42):

And certainly with the postpartum planning, people again may not be aware of the role of a postpartum doula, but we can support again, the entire family by day and do household tasks, light meal preparation, we can vacuum and do things that no matter how you deliver, you’re not supposed to do the first six weeks.

(13:09):

And at our agency we have infant care specialists, also newborn care specialists, which are a completely different field than a postpartum doula. And we love supporting overnight newborn care and feeding support so families can get rest. If our client is staying home and has other kids, it’s hard to function by day with a busy household and then have twins and try to get systems in place and structure. And so some of our multiples families hire us only for daytime support. Some have a mix of night and day, and some exclusively focus on having a postpartum doula or newborn care specialist help with getting schedules in place, optimizing rest, supporting feeding, no matter how a family chooses to feed the multiples. And sometimes there are one baby may not need a NICU stay or may have a shortened NICU stay and you’re bringing one baby home. So the family is going back and forth. And so we sometimes see that with triplets, for example, where there may be one or two newborns at home and the other is still in the nicu. So dealing with that emotional stress and giving resources, again, therapists and support groups and talking through what that transition will look like when the second or third baby comes back home.

(14:50):

So there’s so many. Every family has different goals and needs, and some may even have a nanny. So we’re communicating about plans and nap time with anyone who’s involved in care, whether it’s a grandparent, friend, partner.

Dr. Sarah (15:09):

That’s so interesting. I have two, but they’re both singleton’s, right? So I have my son first and then my daughter. They were 19 months apart though, so I still had a very young kiddo, toddler.

Kristin (15:22):

Yeah, two in diapers at the same time. It’s busy.

Dr. Sarah (15:24):

I basically had a baby when I had a baby, which is not the same as having twins. I have such deep profound respect for anyone who has multiples because just from having a 19 month old and an infant, that alone was so challenging. And I think when you have multiples, the level of organizational logistics and also the amount of unknowns that are, there’s just a greater risk of complications. There’s more variables that you don’t have control over when you’re pregnant with multiples. Do you find that people who are going through multiple having twins or triplets, do you find that they seek out more postpartum care, do you think?

Kristin (16:21):

Absolutely.

Dr. Sarah (16:22):

They are more focused on the birth and the labor?

Kristin (16:27):

I think it depends on the type of birth. If they’re attempting a vaginal birth, they will often hire a doula. But I’ve also had clients hire me with a planned surgical birth that may just have anxiety or fear of loss, could have had a prior loss, and are worried about one or both babies and their health and how things will go during delivery and decide to hire someone who is there to give them not only the reassurance, but also their options and knows them, and they feel this trust with their doula in a way that is much different than a medical team can provide.

Dr. Sarah (17:14):

Yeah. I’m curious too. I think I’ve had a couple doulas on the podcast before. I’ve had obstetricians on the podcast before, and we’ve always had this interesting take on, I think that there can be a myth that there’s animosity between these two fields and that in reality we’re busting some myths about this work. I think that most of the time, obviously there’s outliers, but most of the time it can be a really synergistic, multidisciplinary team approach that often reduces the stress. And there’s this sort of yin yang that can happen with having this nonmedical element to the full medical team. You don’t just have to have a home birth in a bathtub with flowers to have a doula. You can have them in a medical setting, and they actually, it’s not like they’re competing resources. They can be really, really synergistic.

Kristin (18:22):

Absolutely. And in my early days as a doula, there were a lot more trust issues between doulas and the medical team, including nurses. And I think part of that is doulas have become more known nationally, more professional because of some of the insurance programs, the self-funded plans like carrot, fertility, progeny May, then the TRICARE military requiring doulas to have insurance, to have business established businesses, their own LLC, and maintaining certification continuing ed. So there’s more credibility within the profession than when I started. And it did seem like doulas tended to fit in that stereotype more of only being for unmedicated, a little more crunchy, mainly home birth and things have certainly changed a lot, especially with some states, including my own in Michigan, offering Medicaid coverage for birth doula support.

Dr. Sarah (19:38):

So I think as it’s becoming more common and the field is becoming more credentialed and sophisticated in the way that it can advocate for its services, so people who might have not maybe never heard of doulas, it’s becoming more common. More people are hearing about it, might be more curious about it. If people are like, I didn’t have a doula with my first, why would I get one for my second? What do you tend to help them consider?

Kristin (20:15):

Yes. So with my own personal experience, I didn’t know what doulas were with my first, but had an induction, had preeclampsia. My daughter was in the NICU for four days. I had a lot of stress and could have used that emotional support. So my kids are 21 months apart, so similar in age to yours, Sarah. And when I became pregnant, I knew about doulas then because I became very involved in breastfeeding advocacy, joined multiple organizations, helped put on events, and there were doulas there at the events I was working on. And so my first call was actually to one of the doulas that I had worked with, and I hired her before I even told my family that I was expecting. So I knew that I wanted that more for the resources and the emotional support than even the physical support in my labor.

Dr. Sarah (21:19):

Yeah, it’s interesting. I was lucky enough actually, Emily Ups, who is my partner at the group practice that we own, but she’s also on this podcast all the time. We do a Thursday q and a episode together. So a lot of people who are listening know of Emily. Emily is the reason I have a doula. I had a doula with my first, so we were working together at the hospital. She’s had just had her third, and I was pregnant with my first, and she was like, okay, here’s what you’re going to do If you know Emily, and those of you listening know Emily, she’s very matter of fact. She’s like, here’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to get on a list right now for daycare because you will not be able to get to daycare in Manhattan anytime soon. So start now and you will get a doula. Absolutely. She was just like, this is what you will do.

(22:09):

I loved, I had a really great experience with my birth doula, and then I had a postpartum doula, a different woman for 10 days after the birth of my son. Nice. And that was the best possible gift I could have ever given to myself and my family. But then when I had my daughter, we decided at the time, let’s be honest, having a doula is a financial privilege sometimes. And it sounds like, and I definitely want to ask, pick your brain about resources. It sounds like as it’s becoming more accessible and more well known and more solidified, there are more resources for accessing doula care. So I want to ask you about that, but when I was doing it, it wasn’t as easy. And so when my daughter was born, we chose to put our resources in postpartum doula care instead of birth doula.

Kristin (23:04):

Makes sense. Yes.

Dr. Sarah (23:05):

And it ended up, I didn’t know this at the time, but she ended up being breach and I had a C-section, which again sounds like doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t have a doula and can’t benefit from a doula in a surgical birth, but I think I was able to put more time in. I was just very more, again, second pregnancy, different needs. I had a toddler at home, but also more awareness of what I needed because I’d done it before. And so I knew going for my second time around, I wanted more postpartum care for longer 10 days was I wanted more than 10 days after having gone through it once. I was like, I’d like more help at the start. So I had a really amazing postpartum doula out in Westchester. We weren’t living in Manhattan anymore. And I am so grateful for having that support. And I wonder too, if people are, I think there’s something about that second time pregnancy, you have more insight into what felt challenging the first time around. And I feel like there’s no one right way to do it. Just the way I chose to do it doesn’t mean that that’s the right way or certainly not, but this idea that you can change your plan, you can do something different, you can add resources, you can reallocate resources, you can move things around based on what works best for you is very powerful.

Kristin (24:44):

Exactly.

Dr. Sarah (24:46):

Yeah, I do. I know that we were just talking before we recorded and there were some resources that were not available when I was having my kids that are now available. So can you talk a little bit about how people can access doula care if it’s not, so what are some of the resources for accessing financial support to get doula care?

Kristin (25:14):

Okay, sure, Sarah. So health savings and flex spending plans cover birth doulas and most postpartum doulas, if they meet the qualifications, sometimes an OB or a midwife letter would be needed, but that’s pretty rare in my experience. Most of the time, as long as the doula is approved to take the cards that it goes through, they’ve met the credentialing and so on. And there are more employer funded insurance plans that cover doulas. And that would be the biggest example would be carrot fertility. It’s a fertility benefit, but it also covers birth support and it also includes postpartum doula care. There are some restrictions. It doesn’t include some of the household tasks that the average postpartum doula might do, like meal preparation and so on. But it’s more focused on the newborn and feeding support end of the role. And then we have seen Maven is a new benefit that it covers both birth and postpartum care.

(26:31):

And then progeny is another one that a lot of tech companies are utilizing. Salesforce would be an example. Some banks are using it LinkedIn, and so there might be virtual remote workers all over the country. And I’ve had some of those major tech companies have employees in my area in West Michigan take advantage of those benefits. And I find even with navigating my husband’s benefits, I don’t fully understand everything that he has. So it’s often a coworker who say, utilized our postpartum support that tells their friend about how great it was rather than looking into their own benefits or talking to HR and so on is how people are finding us. And then there’s some military benefits. TRICARE covers, birth doulas. There are some nonprofit organizations that gift birth support, like grant funded birth doulas, especially to diverse low income women and families. And then there are some postpartum focused nonprofits.

(27:50):

There’s one in my area called Moms Bloom that brings the volunteer, not necessarily a postpartum doula, but someone in to hold the baby, help around the house emotionally help, and that would be grant and donor funded as well. So the family would not pay for a service like that. So there’s more of those options. And I have found in the last several years that instead of registering for things, people are registering for services like a postpartum doula or a housekeeper or meal delivery service, things that can make your life easier after your baby or multiple babies or born.

Dr. Sarah (28:34):

Yeah, that’s so important. I think it can feel daunting. And I also think this is something that requires a little bit of forethought, not just obviously accessing these resources, but even thinking about and preparing and securing a doula, you have to kind of, how early in a pregnancy do people tend to reach out to you? When should people be considering if they want to have a doula, how quickly should they be connecting with and making that plan, especially if they’re having multiples and they’re needing kind of potentially more comprehensive wraparound care because like you said, you can have more risk of bedrest, you can have more complex birth situations to plan for, and you have more children at the end of the birth that you have to consider all of the moving parts for. So having that wraparound care might be something kind of more pressing for multiples.

Kristin (29:36):

Absolutely. Because oftentimes you’re delivering three weeks earlier, typically. I’ve had some clients go close to term or two term, but that is rare. So again, just making that plan. If there are other children at home, childcare centers, daycare, nannies, and certainly the earlier you hire a doula, the more connected you will be and the more you’ll be able to benefit from the resources and experience and that emotional support in agency. My own can often take clients even last minute, but there’s not that time to really form a connection or sometimes we rush to get the prenatal visit in, but we’re often able to accommodate needs. But many doulas operate on their own or they may have a partner and they get booked up. They often take, say two to three clients a month, and so they’re booked for the year. I have clients who are due in June, for example. So we as doulas, especially in the birth end of things, plan our vacations and our life well ahead of time just based on those due dates and when people are reaching out.

Dr. Sarah (30:56):

Okay, so if you want to have a doula, you want to be thinking about it. As soon as you kind of make that decision, you want to be reaching out and getting, at least, I always talk about this with therapy. I always encourage people to sort of shop around and have, it’s about a relationship. So you want to be able to feel empowered to say, I’m going to maybe have a call, a chat with multiple people before I just decide this is the right fit. Does that something that you guys do in the doula world as well? Do you encourage people to get to know the person, get a chance to have a conversation, not just about a service, right? It’s about the relationship. This is a very intimate time and an intimate relationship.

Kristin (31:48):

Absolutely. Very similar to finding the perfect therapist. I mean, you want to have the background that matches up. So if you’re looking for someone with multiples experience, for example, or NICU experience, certain, we have doulas, myself included, who are VBAC certified. So vaginal birth after cesarean. And so you might be looking for a more experienced doula or have a smaller budget and open to a newer doula. And then again, personality is key. Some of the doulas on my team, including myself, we work in a shared call model. So you’d be hiring two doulas and then some doulas on my team prefer to work individually and rely on the rest of our team in case of illness or emergency as backup. So also factoring, does your partner get along with the doula who’s going to be spending time in labor or with the postpartum doula, and does the doula’s personality match your own energy level?

(33:00):

All of it. And every personality, as you know is different. And so for me, I rely on my gut and my instinct, and I know right away I don’t need to ask 20 questions, but certainly some of our clients are more analytical and found a list of questions to ask, and then we’ll interview three to four doulas and then compare the answers and make a decision. And others just rely on a referral from a provider or a friend who utilized that particular doula. So it just obviously varies individual to individual, but a connection is so important. I talk about that in our book, supported Your Guide to Birth and Baby about questions to ask, how to find the perfect doula, whether it’s a birth doula, a postpartum doula, and the importance of taking your time. Some people, again, will interview multiple doulas within my team or maybe one option within Gold Coast and then a couple elsewhere and make a decision that way. And I certainly want all of our clients to feel like they have the perfect match for them.

Dr. Sarah (34:23):

What are some questions that you find are particularly helpful or things to consider a framework really for finding someone who’s going to meet the needs that you individually are having?

Kristin (34:37):

Yeah, so certainly for multiples, I will give you some examples for postpartum families, for example, and I would say one of the biggest questions would be how much experience the doula has working with twins or if there are other siblings involved. And then if say, the family will be pumping their experience, supporting, pumping and getting schedules in place for twins and triplets. And certainly if overnight is the request, their experience with supporting the entire family and the need for rest with overnights. And if again, a NICU stay is forecasted and the family hires in pregnancy, then NICU experience is key. Even though, again, we’re not nurses. Some of the doulas on my team are nurses, but they don’t act in a medical scope at all. So just having that background. A typical question that I like to give in podcasts and blogs and so on is asking the doula what their superpower is. What is their biggest gift? Why do they do this work? What is their philosophy as a birth doula or a postpartum doula? And seeing if that matches up with your own,

Dr. Sarah (36:18):

I think that’s such good advice. I think you mentioned this earlier too, but I think really making sure that you are feeling like whatever your goals are in your birth, whether it’s to have a non-medicated birth, to have an epidural immediately, whatever it is, if you want to breastfeed, if you want to bottle feed, if you want to pump and formula whatever, that you’re working with someone who is going to empower you to do whatever feels good to you. I think that that’s so valuable in this relationship too.

Kristin (36:54):

Absolutely. And if someone, again, has some post-traumatic stress from a previous birth or even other surgeries or medical conditions, someone who has additional trainings in perinatal mood disorders or loss, I am certified as a loss doula. Some of the other doulas on my team are, and all of my doulas have had a training in supporting loss. And so being really understanding because people want to help friends and family, for example, but they often don’t know what to say. So if we have the appropriate trainings, we can provide comfort in a way that friends and family can’t, whether it’s again, supporting that stress and fear of the birth or NICU stay and whatever may happen in early parenting or in the birth itself.

Dr. Sarah (37:58):

And we know that when you have support, your stress is you have lower levels of stress, which does put you, we know that stress in pregnancy and in labor and in postpartum can put you at a higher risk for lots of complications, but also especially for perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, which can happen during pregnancy, they can happen after. And so I think it’s a very good protective measure to have a support team throughout this process, especially with multiples, because it’s just all the risks are amplified in terms of mental health challenges. You are putting more stress on your emotional and physiological systems.

Kristin (38:54):

Yes, there’s so much depletion, and especially if you choose to breastfeed or pump, you need to make sure that you’re caring for yourself physically and mentally. And that recovery is more of a challenge with more than one baby.

Dr. Sarah (39:10):

And I think you said this before, but I feel like it cannot be said enough, which is we are totally indoctrinated in our culture as mothers to just, you should be able to do this by yourself. We are capable. And I think if you look at our species, you look at our history, mothers didn’t do this by themselves ever in our society. This is not doula ship is actually much, much older, and the concept of having support systems to support the mother and the family through this transition is much older than the medical system that we have.

Kristin (39:59):

So true.

Dr. Sarah (40:01):

It’s not to replace that either. Both can be, both can be useful to say that we aren’t supposed to do this by ourselves. If we have that voice in our head that’s saying, I should be able to do this all by myself, we really want to notice that, reflect on that, see if we can dismiss that with some compassion because that’s actually not really how our species is designed to enter into this space of parenthood.

Kristin (40:37):

100% agree. Sarah, you’re speaking my language.

Dr. Sarah (40:41):

Oh, so one more question for you. Can you kind of paint us through an average day or even a week, what that looks like with a postpartum doula when you’ve had multiples?

Kristin (40:53):

Okay. So an average daytime shift with our team would be going in and seeing what the individual goal for the mother and the couple would be for the day. And sometimes again, a client will have a list of things that the doula can do to be helpful, and then just being there to talk through how she’s feeling emotionally. Does she need any resources? How can we best make today the best use of whether it’s a three hour shift or an eight hour shift, the time that we have with a family. And sometimes it’s organizing the nursery or giving some tips on sleep or scheduling, and other times it’s just holding her hand and telling her that she’s doing great. And sometimes it will be playing with other children and getting them snacks so the mother can care for the newborn without interruptions, or it could be completely opposite. And with multiples, it could be focusing on them so the mother can focus on other children or run them to daycare or take them outside for one-on-one time. Because there can sometimes be a little bit of jealousy with other siblings. And especially when you’re dealing with twins or triplets, that’s even more attention that’s directed away from the other child or children.

Dr. Sarah (42:41):

Yes. And with postpartum evening night care, so I live in New York. In New York, there is a really big culture of night nurses. That’s a really common thing for people to have after their pregnancy. And I think it’s changing a little bit, but I was definitely one of the few people I knew at the time that was like, I don’t want a night nurse. I want a postpartum doula to come at night. And can you talk a little bit about the difference between a night nurse and a postpartum doula or a night doula and help people understand why they might want to? What would be the pros and cons to one or the other?

Kristin (43:35):

Great question, Sarah. So night nurse, they aren’t typically always nurses, but in the newborn care specialist field, that term is replacing the N nurse. So they are going through a national board certification, and the training is much more comprehensive from having gone through a newborn care specialist organization myself. Then a postpartum doula training would be even. And it’s all about understanding, again, sleep feeding, caring for the newborn postpartum. Doulas, depending on the training organization may have a totally different scope. Some mother, the mother focus on feeding and help around the house, but other certifying bodies like a Kappa or a pro doula that I’m trained through have an infant care component to it. So overnights are part of our role, but certain doula training organizations, it’s more about daytime care only household tasks and again, supporting the mother and other siblings. So that would vary.

(44:48):

But for postpartum doulas, it would be, again, supporting the entire family as the model. A lot of focus on feeding. The doula would typically rest when the baby or multiples are resting and certainly clean bottle parts and do some light household tasks, but they’re not going to do some of the daytime postpartum doula. They’re not going to unload a dishwasher or start laundry or do things that would wake up the household. They will typically focus on the multiples or the newborn in that role. And with postpartum care, if the mother is breastfeeding, then we can bring the twins or triplets to the mother in the room or wake the mother and have her come into the nursery and feed, and then we do the diaper changes, the sleep shaping the burping, and you can optimize your rest and pumping. Obviously, we would get the pump milk and feed babies that way.

(46:01):

So it isn’t a standard answer. Often a night nanny or nurse would work for a shorter amount of time than a postpartum doula. Many postpartum doulas will work through the first year unless their scope is more of that recovery time of six to eight weeks. But night nurses or newborn care specialists can work 24 sevens like 24 hours a day. If a family needs that live-in care, they can do three months of care is typical for a newborn care specialist or a night nurse, and then a family transitions to a nanny or an op pair after that. So the night nurse does not support the mother or the entire family. They don’t do household tasks. It is completely baby care focused.

Dr. Sarah (47:02):

Got it. Yeah, that seemed to be kind of my experience. A lot of my friends had baby nurses or night nurses. That’s very common where I live, but the focus seemed very much on the baby, whereas I think I was seeking something more holistic. And I don’t mean that in the wu sense, but I mean working on, I wanted someone to support the whole family system myself, every piece of the whole.

Kristin (47:34):

Yes.

Dr. Sarah (47:35):

That felt like that would be more achievable with a doula than a baby nurse or night nurse.

Kristin (47:42):

Yes. They are not trained to support the mother unless they happen to be both, which, yeah, then they can blend both tasks.

Dr. Sarah (47:52):

So basically the options are endless. There’s a big menu. If people are feeling like, oh gosh, there’s so many things I need to one takeaway to just walk away from this episode where I can just feel grounded. Either you’re going into a pregnancy, you’re coming out of a pregnancy, you’re planning your next whatever, what’s one thing? Where would you start?

Kristin (48:16):

Yes. So I would say you don’t need all the things. I think with multiples, you feel like you need two or three of everything. You don’t. So focus more on the support. However, your individual and family goals are for the type of support you need, whether it’s a meal service, someone to take care of your home, or again, a newborn care specialist or postpartum doula. And we do have a multiples class that is private and virtual or in person at Gold Coast helping families figure out what is important to register for, how to care for multiples. And we also have a grandparents class because oftentimes grandparents are involved in caregiving, especially because we’re in a childcare shortage. And so it can be awkward having those conversations about safe sleep and the updates on feeding. So we try to take that stress away from our clients and students and give grandparents and family members the education they need to be able to keep up with even car seat safety, for example.

Dr. Sarah (49:36):

Oh, I love that because not having to be the one who tells your extended family why you want things done the way you want them, and having it just outsourced so that it’s like an objective third party is giving you this information. I feel like that takes a lot of pressure off of the extended family system, whether it’s, I don’t want to have to deal with the confrontation of telling my mother-in-Law why I want her to do this thing a certain way when she wants to help or not, or having a very well-intentioned extended family member who is just very, has an older way of doing things that don’t match up with your particular goals or values, or are maybe antiquated and they don’t know that. Right. And it’s hard to tell someone that it’s a little easier to hear it from an objective third party, neutral third party.

Kristin (50:31):

Absolutely. That’s what we find, and we find that our clients are gifting that for their parents. But we do have some grandparents purchase a class on their own and want to get that education, but oftentimes it’s a gift.

Dr. Sarah (50:46):

That’s awesome. We have a lot of grandparents who listen to this show, actually. So first of all, love you grandparents. You are part of the village and we’re so grateful for you, truly. And it’s always nice when you want to take a class.

Kristin (51:02):

It is. Absolutely.

Dr. Sarah (51:03):

And learn more about the art of grandparenting because it’s an incredible skill.

Kristin (51:11):

It is. And again, ever changing, I feel like even as a professional, it’s hard to keep up with all of the recalls and how safe sleep has changed and feeding. So keeping up with pumping and understanding all of the options.

Dr. Sarah (51:29):

That’s amazing. Alright, well thank you so much. If people want to get connected with you or the resources that you have at Gold Coast doulas, how can they find you?

Kristin (51:38):

Thanks, Sarah. So my website is gold coast doulas.com. You can find the book supported, your guide to birth and baby@supportedbook.com. We’re on Amazon as a Kindle on paperback, hardcover, and also on Audible and iTunes. And then in select bookstores, my podcast Ask the Doulas can be found on your favorite podcast player. And we’re on social media at Gold Coast Doulas on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, Pinterest, you name it.

Dr. Sarah (52:18):

Amazing. Thank you so much.

Kristin (52:21):

Thank you. I appreciate your conversation. It was so fun to chat with you.

Dr. Sarah (52:31):

As you just heard, pregnancy and postpartum with multiples comes with a host of challenges and having a strong support system through that first year of parenthood can be absolutely essential. From the moment that you find out you’re expecting twins or triplets to the constant demands of caring for multiple newborns or multiple siblings with newborns, the emotional and physical toll can feel really overwhelming. But with the right guidance, you can navigate these challenges with more confidence and peace. So one resource that I’ve created to help new parents get that support that they need is my digital course, The Authentic Parent. It is a self-paced course with six comprehensive video modules and corresponding workbooks with foundational insights into your child’s development, the parent-child relationship, and how to understand the root cause of various parenting challenges so you can respond with confidence and a customized plan during that first year and throughout your entire parenting journey.

(53:32):

The Authentic Parent isn’t just another program that tells you what to do, what to say, and what to believe. It’s really a foundational framework that teaches you the fundamentals of how a child’s brain, their relationship, and their personality develop, as well as the psychology of parenthood. So you can make really informed and educated choices that are tailored to your own unique child. To learn more about The Authentic Parent, go to the episode description wherever you’re streaming this podcast, and click the link or you can head to drsarahbren.com/tap. That’s drsarahbren.com/tap. I would love to help guide you in your journey of learning to feel calm, confident, and grounded in parenthood. So thanks for listening and don’t be a stranger.