Dr. Sarah (00:00):

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(00:44):

Ever wonder what psychologists moms talk about when we get together, whether we’re consulting one another about a challenging case or one of our own kids, or just leaning on each other when parenting feels hard, because trust me, even when we do this for a living, it’s still hard. Joining me each week in these special Thursday shows are two of my closest friends, both moms, both psychologists, they’re the people I call when I need a sounding board. These are our unfiltered answers to your parenting questions. We’re letting you in on the conversations the three of us usually have behind closed doors. This is Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions.

(01:23):

Hello everybody. Welcome back to Beyond the Sessions where we answer real listener questions. I’ve got Dr. Rebecca Hershberg and Dr. Emily Upshur here. So nice to have you guys back. I missed you.

Dr. Rebecca (01:40):

Hi. It’s always such a pleasure. Missed you too.

Dr. Emily (01:41):

Yeah,

Dr. Sarah (01:45):

So you ready for our listener question of the day?

Dr. Rebecca (01:48):

Let’s do it. Absolutely.

Dr. Sarah (01:49):

Okay. Hi Sarah. I have… Hi Sarah and Emily and Rebecca. But, hi Sarah. I have a preterm baby in the NICU, a three-year-old and a six-year-old. I just listened to episode 114 on the NICU Survival Guide. It was definitely helpful, but I’m wondering if you have advice on communicating with and maintaining the bond with your older kids while caring for a child in the nicu? In our situation, we are grateful to have two sets of grandparents to take on most of the care of our older kids. I wonder how my husband and I can intentionally strengthen our relationship with our older kids during this time when we aren’t around them much and are putting our focus on the baby. Thank you for reading. It’s always so hard when you have NICU stuff, the logistical stuff that comes with it, but you’re in a grief or I’m a very, there’s a lot of stress. A lot of stress.

Dr. Rebecca (02:49):

Yeah. Although it’s interesting that, yeah, because the first thing that occurred to me is like, oh my gosh, this mom is bothering, can write into a podcast while she has two young kids and a kid in the NICU. And so to me that’s a sign that things are kind of going okay.

Dr. Sarah (03:06):

I mean, I hope that that’s the case. I also, this may be, and either way, if things are okay or are not so okay. This is a mom that clearly is resourcing herself. This is an intentional mom here.

Dr. Rebecca (03:22):

Who is also very aware of how amazing it is to have the supports that they have and how important it is to use them at times like this. I mean, this is where if you have family nearby, bring it on because it really does take a village and when these types of crises in quotes, because it may not actually be a crisis, but it’s certainly a big change in routine and a time of uncertainty. As you said, Sarah, all the research shows that when that happens, calling in social supports, particularly those to whom your older kids have an attachment to is what will help them get through it with the least long-term consequences.

Dr. Sarah (04:12):

Destabilization effects.

Dr. Rebecca (04:14):

Thank you. I was looking for a word. I think this is where I might, as concrete as it sounds, I might rely on just taking a bunch of pictures and sending them to grandparents’ phones, spending some time in the nicu, writing little cards to the younger kids that can be hidden around the house. I think it’s about, for me, when I hear this and I’m curious what you guys think, taking the pressure off to necessarily spend time with the older kids, we always talk about the intervention of special time and special mommy and kid time or special daddy and kid time, and I just think that’s not necessarily going to happen right now and that’s okay. Your kids are in really good hands with two sets of grandparents and what can we do to keep the connection strong in the absence of actual time? So I think of little cards, little trinkets, wearing matching tattoos, sending pictures, those sorts of things are what jumps to my mind.

Dr. Sarah (05:27):

Yeah, I love that. I mean, I think any type of transitional object, whether it’s an symbolic or imaginary or concrete physical, a thing I can hold is very, very, very valuable because it helps, especially thinking developmentally, this is a 3-year-old and a 6-year-old, they are working. The 6-year-old probably has it a little bit stronger, but thrilled to some degree should be able to do this too, of the skill of conjuring up my attachment figure in my mind when I’m not with them to use as a means of actively soothing myself. They might not be aware that they can do that, but that is something they’re probably intrinsically relying on. So any way we can facilitate that process of them being able to pull us into their mind when they need us, if we’re not physically there, the better. So I’ve talked about this a couple of times in the podcast, but I have an inside kind of symbol with my kids, and I imagine you guys might have these things too, Rebecca, you’re, you can make one up if you don’t already have one now.

(06:37):

But it’s also nice if there’s a thing that you can refer back to. I always make these little tiny one inch square pieces of paper with a little colored in heart on it, and I’ve been doing that since my kids were little when I went on a trip or if I was going to miss bedtime, I’d put one on their pillow or I’d give them to them or I’d tuck it in their pocket on the first day of school. So it gives this sort of invisible string kind of thing that it became this shorthand for us. And so even just last night I had to take my or a was a couple of days ago, I took my daughter to this sports camp because school wasn’t in session and we were working parents, so we had something we had to do and it was a new setting for her and she was feeling a little ugh about it and she said, can I have a heart? And I went and go and found a piece of paper and a pen and I drew a little heart and I just folded up and put it in her pocket and she was still a little, but she went and she felt a little bit better. I think leveraging any of these types of inside jokes or inside routines or rituals you have can be really helpful in these moments of tough transition and sort of uncontrollable separation.

Dr. Emily (07:52):

I love that. I love the symbolism of that. I also think, and I don’t know if you said this Rebecca or Sarah, I think keeping as much the routines that you typically do, the other care providers, the support care, the grandparents in this listener’s situation, if they can keep some of the same routines, especially for the three-year-old, but definitely still for the 6-year-old as well, if there’s an evening or nighttime routine that you’re going to miss, but you always do bath book song bed kind of thing to try to maintain or a specific book or a specific thing, a little bit of that same routine to sort of conjure up the notion of that security and the ease of transition that some things are still reliable I think can be really helpful as well.

Dr. Sarah (08:43):

And naming that this is a temporary time, helping the kids tell the story, understand the sort of, I mean, I’m sure they know that their sibling is in the nicu, but also to name this little part that’s a little bit more abstract, we might miss each other more than we thought we would. So used to seeing each other and we forget when we are apart that it feels kind of hard after a while to be a part a lot. So it makes sense that it’s a tricky time or whatever. You can be more articulate than me, but just making sure that we’re reminding them that this is happening. I see it too. It’s hard. It’s not forever. We’re going to get to the other side of it.

Dr. Emily (09:33):

Yeah, I mean one of the things I kept thinking is hopefully this isn’t a terribly long period of time and it probably feels that way and I really feel that for this family, but in the grand scheme of things, it’s probably not terribly long on a timeline and I think that’s comforting. And the other thing that I kept thinking as you were saying that Sarah, is one thing I’m really intentional with my kids is that if they get a little like, oh, but you’re spending more time with this kid or, oh, but I actually really dispel the notion of everything has to be fair and equal for every single child. So I think also it’s nice to say, well, the new baby needs a little bit more of mommy’s time right now, and then you’re going to need a little bit of more of mommy’s time. Remember that time when you had a really, and I spent more time with you doing X, Y, and z, I think it’s really okay to be very transparent about taking care of the needs of each member of the family when they’re needed.

Dr. Sarah (10:37):

Yeah, I think that goes a really long way. It might not be well received in the moment, but it don’t think that your children there are going to be like, oh, oh, thank you, but it goes in there.

Dr. Emily (10:51):

Well, I also think it allows them to think about what they want and need from you as opposed to, I want the same exact thing as the, so your, their cup might be super, super filled by you doing bedtime one night that week, whereas another kid might need drop off in the mornings or I think it just sort of, instead of just saying, I’ll do the same thing for all of you, the baby all the way to the 6-year-old really makes you think and them think about what is intentionally helping them and fills up their needs in a way that’s not just sort of to check the box kind of.

Dr. Sarah (11:29):

Yeah.

Dr. Rebecca (11:31):

The other thing that occurs to me is to make sure that the grandparents are aware of and understand that there may be some rejection of them in this context because I’ve worked with families before where they’re trying to navigate grandparents’ hurt feeling. It’s like I picked the grandma picks the kid from school and he’s really disappointed and then the grandma takes it personally and hopefully that’s not an issue here, but it may be worth reminding grandparents depending on family dynamics that as Emily sort of just said, the three-year-old and the 6-year-old miss mom and dad and that’s who they want. And everybody understands on a basic level how incredibly lucky they’re to have grandparents, but it’s not the same and that it’s okay for the kids to show disappointment that mom and dad aren’t around more or potentially regressions in behavior, potentially regressions in developmental skills. That’s what stress does. It’s normal. It’s okay. Sometimes grandparents aren’t necessarily as up to date on these sorts of things.

Dr. Sarah (12:51):

One other thing, and I actually, I’ll preface this by saying, follow your kids’ lead because not every kid needs or wants this or is ready for this intervention, but some kids really take it and run with it. So just like we were saying, find ways for you to show and symbolize to your children that you’re thinking of them while you’re apart from them. Finding ways to invite them to be participating in the relationship with the new baby even though they’re not there all the time. So again, not all kids, kids who are more ambivalent about the new baby, this might not be as useful, but kids who do want this and just offer it and see if they take the invitation and if they don’t just move on. But thinking of how we can help them feel like they’re involved when they’re not there. So can they be writing some cards or pictures for us to decorate the new baby’s bassinet with or are there symbolic things that they can do to participate from afar if they’re not able to be coming to visit or able to be with mom and dad while they’re spending time with the baby?

Dr. Rebecca (14:08):

Absolutely.

Dr. Emily (14:10):

That’s a really nice way to also weave in that connection with this new transition to a family of five. That’s a nice way to sort of loop that in as well.

Dr. Sarah (14:22):

Yeah, I think as much as our kid, there’s sort of a separate relationship between parent and child that we want to be mindful of and really supportive of when it’s being taxed with a separation. But then there’s the family system. These siblings also have to navigate their relationship with all the new people in the family, and so when we can focus on that too, when it’s possible to strengthen that, that’s I think always good for everybody and it’s grounding because the addition of a new sibling can be sort of like a shakeup and so even when there isn’t a NICU involved stay. But yeah, I think thinking about ways to ground everybody in their roles, their new roles can be helpful.

(15:20):

Any other thoughts? I think we covered it. I’m hoping that this, oh, I’ll say one other thing, which is like give yourself grace. This is a lot and if you need to come home after stay at the NICU and go be alone for a little bit, that’s also okay. That’s also time. That is an important time to spend. It doesn’t have to all be, well, I was gone for this much time and so now I have to just rush in and be here with my other kids right now. If you need you time, you got to take that too.

Dr. Rebecca (15:52):

Absolutely.

Dr. Emily (15:53):

Yeah.

Dr. Rebecca (15:53):

If this feels hard, it’s because it is really hard.

Dr. Emily (15:57):

I love that too. I love, this Mom seems really attentive to her children and I also would say it’s okay to take that time for yourself too. Again, this is going to be hopefully a temporary period of time and so I wouldn’t worry too much. This parent is really attuned and attached to their kids and I think taking some of that time will help them, even if it’s less face time with them, show up a little bit more regulated and feeling a little bit more recharged themselves.

Dr. Sarah (16:31):

Love it. Alright, well all the best to you and good luck with this new transition and we really hope everybody is doing well very soon.

(16:40):

Thank you so much for listening. As you can hear, parenting is not one size fits all. It’s nuanced and it’s complicated. So I really hope that this series where we’re answering your questions really helps you to cut through some of the noise and find out what works best for you and your unique child. If you have a burning parenting question, something you’re struggling to navigate or a topic you really want us to shed light on or share research about, we want to know, go to drsarahbren.com/question to send in anything that you want, Rebecca, Emily, and me to answer in Securely Attached: Beyond the Sessions. That’s drsarahbren.com/question. And check back for a brand new securely attached next Tuesday. And until then, don’t be a stranger.